Posted on 18. May, 2011 by in News

After writing several blog posts about the rediscovery of a nice collection of boulders in RMNP, there were several comments posted here from climbers who seemed upset about the new attention these climbs were receiving. They bring up some interesting points and I would like to bring this discussion to the forefront. The first comment came from J Seaver, who had this to say:

“I’m getting a good laugh out of all you guys. Patting each other on the back about “discovering” a “new” area that locals have been visiting and developing for half a decade. I know, I know……….our lack of double digit sending skills make our efforts inconsequential.
My giggles are tempered by sadness though. I suppose this formerly quiet, and idyllic, after-work destination for us will now go the way of Chaos Canyon. Overridden by shirtless pebblers; dozens of crashpads stuffed thoughtlessly under every boulder; a straight-up nasty scene, full of spraylords and video cameras.”

and then from DuBois:

“Everyone on this thread is missing Seavers’ point. Some hard #$%#$ went undocumented here, because you know what? Little rock climbs are very forgettable….Bunch of slack-jawed,”uber-stoked”, beta hungry, little ^&^%#. Please, don’t turn every #$%$#@ boulder into “the next big thing”. Leave something to the imagination, and to nature.”

and then from Nate A:

“Is it really that hard to see why a local might be upset about all this? Too many people hanging out in a small area = high impact. Unfortunately, this is all to commonplace at most bouldering areas as a result of lots of people lingering in one area dragging pads around and a very liberal use of chalk. My guess would be that if I visited Endovalley this afternoon already the impact would be drastic compared to the last visit I made, prior to the area recieving publicity. I find this sad, but expected it would happen eventually with the lack an approach guarding this area.”

Last year I met with three rangers from RMNP for almost 2 hours to discuss climbing and bouldering in the Park, in preparation for the forthcoming guidebook (which they were very much in support of). The ranger who I talked most closely with was Jess Asmussen, a climbing ranger. He is an avid boulderer himself, and has climbed in Upper and Lower Chaos as well as Emerald Lake. He was very aware of everything that was going on and he was very helpful. I felt better about bouldering in the Park after our meeting.

This year a good friend of mine, Herm Fiessner, ran into Jess on the road up to Endovalley. Jess was there with another ranger and they walked around the cluster together. They found nothing wrong with what has gone on so far, and told Herm, as they told me, they think bouldering is an acceptable form of usage. They reminded Herm not to stash pads, and to keep the place clean. They were upset by a fire ring, but Herm assured them (I would assume correctly) that the ring was not built by climbers. If you see Jess at the boulders, he is a very friendly guy, and I would encourage you to say hi and talk to him. I would also encourage you not to stash your pad and to keep the place clean. Secret or not, trash at the bouldering area is unacceptable.

So, if the rangers deem our actions acceptable, and everyone who pays an entrance fee has the right to be there, is there a legitimate point being made by the “locals”? I personally have visited the Park over 500 times in the past 11 years. Does this constitute me being local? Would I be a local if I visited a 1000 times, and would that give me any more say than someone who hadn’t? If somehow I camped within the Park boundary would I then be more local than the locals living in Estes Park? Perhaps these are ridiculous questions, but they speak to the idea of the ownership claim many climbers make when they find, clean, ascend or live near new problems. I think these questions have risen around the country at various areas and they bring up some interesting points. Are there some areas which should remain off the internet radar, or is the web too pervasive to avoid? Will the internet destroy the concept of secret bouldering areas? Does the younger generation of climbers even care to have secret areas?

Clearly bouldering in Endovalley is here to stay. Thoughts?

As a post script, my original offer stands. I would love to hear about any problems old or new that have been climbed in the region, as my interest in documenting the accurate history of the area remains.

80 Responses to “Endovalley”

  1. Mervo

    19. May, 2011


    Edo valley/kletter = Bob Horan climbed there and sent it all first.

    Everything there is less than, and not equal to, an FA.

    Just sayin.

  2. Silven

    19. May, 2011

    And to anyone who didn’t like my Monkey Traverse comment, or thought it was ridiculous: Does climbing or bouldering not matter to you? Are you not devoted to it? Because I am and I know a lot of other people that are too. If you’re not interested in where the sport of bouldering (or even your OWN sport of bouldering) is going then I don’t really have anything to say to you. It’s progression, as a sport or an individual, that’s worth talking about. If your local spot just got found out, and you had projects there, you’d better get stronger and do them before someone else does. And this pressure can be motivating! But if you’re just looking to do an after-work circuit to kill an afternoon when you can’t do the “real thing” my advice is to do just that and pretend nothing else is happening around you.

  3. Todd

    19. May, 2011

    I’m not sure how many of the people involved directly climb at endo, but as this discussion has evolved(some might say devolved) into understanding the implications of greater exposure to less well known areas, I thoght I’d give my 2 cents.

    When i first started climbing(1994) most areas were not well known and exploration and adventure were part of the game. Especially for bouldering, but also for sport/trad. Living in Alaska this was even more pronounced. The busiest day of bouldering I’ll see in a summer might have 10 people. So my focus is actually on bringing greater exposure to areas, not keeping them under the radar.

    I learned about climbing outside by seeking out and finding guys who had been climbing outside, and after some time going out with them ventured out to new areas on my own or with other new people I took out. Part of this process was learning about local ethics and understanding the history behind areas and development.

    Fast forward to a climber just getting started in 2010. They start climbing in a gym, get fairly strong quickly. they hear about the “great outdoors” and start looking for places outside. They search the internet and find directions and information about all manner of places. They go out and boulder based on the ethics/standards they’ve learned in the gym. These standards are not universal though and this can quickly become a problem. CREDIT TO SIDEPULL FOR PUTTING THIS OUT ABOVE.

    I think part of what needs to happen is for those with more experience to take a bigger interest in putting forth ethical standards and explain why/how those ethics came about. Sometimes they are a carry over from old times, whcih may or may not be appropriate. Sometimes they have been developed to preserve access and integrity of areas.

    Jaime’s work on this website should get alot of credit for opening newer climbers eyes to some of these ideas. Young new climbers aren’t going to be learning the old way, they’ll be searching the net, and if we don’t talk about these issues, they’ll never see them.

  4. Todd

    19. May, 2011

    Sorry about all the grammer errors.

  5. send in the wolf

    19. May, 2011

    I was going to leave a comment, then I read Silvens post about a mountain, like two people lived there, they held hands or something. And decided this forum was not for me.

    By the way, its raining!

  6. Adam M

    19. May, 2011

    (long whistle) Blogs are for this purpose. That’s why people write back and forth.

    My “secret” spots are several miles into lands. Hike for em, and most front rangers won’t go to them. Too much work…for most (not b3).

    You want to protect your spots, then someone’s gotta
    a) earn it
    b) find it.

    Lot’s of great climbs up there that can’t be GoogleEarthed.

    See you in the mt’s….

  7. big poppa chosscrush

    19. May, 2011

    just heard about some different obscure areas with better rock. within a couple weeks, endo will be re-forgotton. especially if a few suspect edges break or crumble, as i expect with traffic.

    the locust swarm is about to take flight elsewhere.

    the storm will soon pass.

    salty tears will inhibit regrowth, so save the area with joy, not tears. joy that quiet days shall soon return.

  8. Sam

    19. May, 2011

    You da Man Jamie!
    Please keep up the thought provoking posts…..

    Cheers to fun days on the rock!

    Sammy J

  9. Adam M

    19. May, 2011

    Here’s what I mean. My point is somewhere around 7:30

    Made this last year. Please enjoy. had some great fun with it!


  10. Rocco B

    19. May, 2011

    Being from the North East, home of many “secret” areas, I find myself missing the days when I had no idea what was going on in Colorado or anywhere else in the country, and I had no idea what other climbers were doing/thinking. I miss hearing about places like Font from a human being that mentored me. People in climbing taught me ethics and techniques. Things that were “passed on” from one generation to the next by word of mouth, example, and practice. I remember traveling to areas my mentors told me about….no guidebook in hand, wondering around the desert or forest having an adventure and looking for problems that looked fun. The unfortunate reality of the roles of media, climbing gyms, and the internet is that you won’t find true mentors in any of those places…and therefore climbing culture will trend further in the direction it seems to be heading today.

    Many will say that, like a dozen years ago when magazines were the only source of climbing media, that you could just as easily avoid the impacts of media and the internet by not looking at them as you could by not subscribing to Rock and Ice. The fact of the matter is that climbing media is everywhere on the internet, and even if your involvement is limited to Facebook and email, you will see it.

    In conclusion, I think the base of this argument is simply this: Folks claim to respect each others feelings of what climbing means to them, and what type of experience they like to have. The unfortunate reality is that the people who like to boulder in the woods quietly alone are having an increasingly difficult time finding places to have that experience, because the majority (especially in a place like CO, with such a huge climbing community) are into “the scene”. The new majorities enjoyment of climbing is impeding on other peoples ability to enjoy climbing the way that they would like.

    @Silven and others
    PS-Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think the “progression” of climbing is bullshit. Climbing isn’t a job, and it shouldn’t be. It’s a hobby. Yes, I feel this way about other professional sports too. From snowboarding to the NBA….what you do isn’t a job. Is it difficult? Yes. Do you have to train for it? Yes. Is it a practical? No. Is it contributing anything useful to the world at large other than your selfish enjoyment of it? Nope. It’s entertainment. If work were fun we wouldn’t have two different words for those things. I believe that even if you come from a well off family or have a trust fund you should have to go through a period of time busting your ass to feed yourself as an exercise in building humility and understanding for those in the world that have no other choice. Maybe then certain people would just appreciate being able to go climbing and not take it’s “progression” so seriously.

  11. Adam M

    19. May, 2011

    I love you Rocco…

    Haycock is all I gotta say to that.

  12. polaropposite

    19. May, 2011

    “The unfortunate reality is that the people who like to boulder in the woods quietly alone are having an increasingly difficult time finding places to have that experience, because the majority (especially in a place like CO, with such a huge climbing community) are into “the scene”.

    So rude, and lonely…don’t you understand that bouldering is about socializing, and “the scene” and “driving the sport”? What’s more important, quietly communing with nature or “driving the sport” on the internet? And besides, why go to a National Park except to be part of “the scene” that’s “driving the sport” on the internet?

  13. sammy d

    19. May, 2011

    to some climbing is a hobby. To others its a way of life. it runs through our veins. We would die without it. We feed off it. Our world revolves around it. Some people just aren’t lifers.

  14. cardboard_dog

    20. May, 2011

    @ Ryan …. i remember the Secret Garden man. One for the Ladies was an instant classic and a significant contribution to the climbing world. It may not have seen as many repeats as Jade, but still … solid contribution.

  15. Aron

    20. May, 2011

    I also like to feel I am part of something that mattered. I feel that way each time I spray about my ascents.
    @ Silven Thanks for sharing your moving story with Font, it remembered me of this film with Tom Hanks.

  16. fluke

    20. May, 2011

    @sammy d. while I appreciate your enthusiasm and spirit, your insight and experience could benefit from the type of advice imparted by Adam and Rocco. as much as not being able to do the things we love, we would not “die” without them. climbing is no substitute for clean water, food or a warm place to sleep. to suggest otherwise is childish. Rocco, your little diatribe on sharing the details and grading of your FA’s was a riot; Schnickelfritz!
    for what its worth, back in my day we would have these “forums” around the fire at the end of a long day. all the same points, the same range of perspectives. heck, every now and again someone would get a black-eye. so i do think that this new medium for social networking kinda blows things out of perspective. but at the same time, it has accelerated the rate at which information about destinations circulate. this inevitably increases traffic. and while i appreciate B3’s passion and dedication to the sport, i do want to weigh in on the issue of local versus non-local as it pertains to climbing. i wintered (4-8 weeks a season in Heuco Tanks from ’91-’94) and made an annual pilgrimage for at least 10 days until ’99. as near and dear to my heart as the place was, i would never dream of calling myself a local. i don’t think the number of times that one visits a place can substitute for truly living proximal to an area. there were folks i knew who had been climbing at Hueco for decades, but they weren’t part of the scene, they weren’t part of the “progression”, cause they weren’t “pushing” grades. but they were climbers-just like you and me. so think how they felt when the park started to over-flow with posses of young lads, with their pads and music resulting in the closures and regulation of the park. it behoves those of us who have been (or are) privileged enough to travel and climb to respect locals and listen to their feelings when it comes access; just as B3 clearly does – and, btw, props for raising and maintaining this dialogue about it for the current generation.

  17. Adam M

    20. May, 2011

    Thanks fluke. It was my little diatribe on grading. “He’s definitely not getting the Pineapple. He’s getting the Snicklefritz…”

  18. big poppa chosscrush

    20. May, 2011


    “Is it contributing anything useful to the world at large other than your selfish enjoyment of it? Nope.”

    i’d argue that one’s selfish enjoyment does contribute something useful to the world when that selfish enjoyment is then shared with others in the community.

    for instance, others who find new-to-me blocks and share them with me benefit the world by providing me the enjoyment and mental release necessary for me not to mass murder and burn.

    if you think this benefit is not a real benefit, then no form of mental wellness therapy or movements for peace should ever be considered as an ‘achievement’, let alone have a nobel prize dedicated to the effort.

    remember: sharing bouldering = less death and fire.

    live this plan.

  19. Amy

    21. May, 2011

    You can’t control what you don’t own. Jamie is right, any ‘secret’ area has a low chance of remaining so because of the internet – it is too easy to gain knowledge of new places and the lure is too strong to not visit new places. Part of the point of climbing is to be able to interact with new people and test yourself on new rock in new surroundings. And that is true of many sports, not just climbing. I have had my fair share of talking to park rangers as well and I agree, they have mostly have no desire to keep climbers as a user group out. Jamie, by constantly reminding people of how to be a respectable user group, you are doing the best that you can. And maybe your desire to share areas with others means you just have a bigger heart.

  20. David Graham

    21. May, 2011

    I suppose after reading through these comments here at B3, it is impossible not to be moved to say something, even if it may not be very significant. I am not sure I have read all the comments entirely, and have no aim to address anyone in particular by writing this. However, as some of the subject matter in the post involves myself, it motivated me to offer my own perspective, whether or not it means much to anyone else.

    To make a blanket statement, I completely understand peoples animosity towards the development of climbing ares. The consequences of climbing development leave areas which were once remote, tranquil scenes in nature, sometimes evolving into center points of our particular activities culture (rock climbing).

    Publication, at this modern day in age, is also seemingly inevitable, and is rapid compared to standards scene years ago. In effect, we can quickly blame the evolution of society for this (what with all the Facebook and Twitter and what not) and the fact that digital media is so accessible, and easy to share. Yet its hard to start blaming society and technologic evolution for things directly, there are always operators of these new social mediums. For instance, I took pictures of moss and ice and shared them on the inter-world, yet no one seemed to take much interest ( it was very cool to me be the way, i must stress) and moss and ice lovers did not seem to flock.

    So in regard to the development in Endo Valley, its tricky to have a stance. Of whats ok and whats not, whats “right” and whats wrong…whats “cool” and whats “not”. Without delving to much farther into that, I must stress one point. It does not matter if one is local or foreign, professional or beginner, documenting or observing, man or women; what one takes out of the experience is independent, and circumstantially based on the fact that humans are all different.

    With this being stated, I can only personally recount my experiences of climbing in Endo Valley. From the first days forth, mostly involving shoveling, falling down in the 4 foot deep snow, slipping and injuring myself on ice, freezing and exploring with a sense of fear, rather then excitement, and attempting to brush wet icy boulders amongst the company of close amigos…for me equated precious moments, from the past already, which I hold in a different place in my heart, then those of experiences which happened in the same exact place, two weeks later.

    I know for a fact my friend from mexico Diego, was happy it was warmer, even if there where tons of new people none of us really knew, chilling at a place we thought was somewhat of a fresh discovery (for us mind you). H might have endeared these days closer to his heart, he likes the heat, can tune out the people better, is a little less Mainer inspired, and a lot more Mexican.

    So when there was maybe more then 30 climbers, enjoying their day at the this amazing location, I had to note, things were different for me. Not better or worse, just different. Most of the people there that day were enjoying their first day, and I saw the joy and awe in their eyes, as enthusiasts, so I could stomach being “spooked” or “surprised” (sometimes crowds freak me out) and it took that change, that difference in the amount of people enjoying an area, to realize this place was way bigger then me. Like RMNP-bigger, owned by Federal Government, security force in full effect dressed as rangers, controlled mainly by Elk and Tourist and Snow, and Wind…Sun too, maybe deadly-crazy mountain lions beasts (which they call them pumas in mexico) and I can ramble on and on. I am just one dude, one person, enjoying some “new” climbing spot. Who am I to define anything, whats was happening, was.

    Some Native Americans could have bouldered there a long time ago, and shit could’ve been all dope, and maybe they all had a blast. I’m sure I was one of thousands having that sensation. In that spot, throughout history, having a blast, enjoying my time, during my lifetime, at that same location.

    So yeah, its cool to be there at your time in places, but it can all change in a day. Everything can be destroyed. Quarried. Or just plain buried in dirt by a mud slide.

    I can admit the days spent with my close friends, in the nature, feeling wild, and uninhibited, were more memorable to me as a person. I had more of a connection between myself and what was going on around me. Its because I am more habituated with this sensation. I am so much more used to being in the world, with less people around. Alone. Ironically…But.

    This where things get interesting. Whether I like it or not, people generally come boulder where I go climb, most likely because I add new boulders (more or less my passion in life) and generally, many spots I have known as just places (spots which existed as just spots, before people started climbing the rocks there) have evolved into climbing destinations for the international public. Not only do these places evolve, the communities around them do. The local business prospers. Communities of climbers develop. Tourism increases…

    And all because places have their reasons to become important to people, all in their own time, through history…like tides changing beaches every day, thing renew, life leaves place, life returns to places, all while time passes. Things are never here to stay. They just have their time and place.

    I experience this effect. Like when I was young, wondering why the pond in my park was so cool. It was in front of my house, and I was always wondering why no one would come skate and play? At first, I hoarded the spot, and did everything by myself. Played hockey, looked for turtles, but as I grew older, I would start to wonder. How something that used to be so cool on its own, which seemed like my own private playground at one point, could possible evolve into a place which I just wished I could share with other, enjoy, with others, or just plain see them experience it for themselves.

    I love a climbing. I love climbing areas. Sometimes I go to Fontainebleau, and there are hundreds of people running around the forest, some of them just out for a stroll, all donating to the reason I traveled there in the first place. Sometimes I go places alone, where no has even began to climb, and revel in the solemnity, the might of the nature, and the kingdom of animals which create the community. I go places to climb, for different reasons I guess.

    That being said, I like an area when it is fresh, when it is very raw, and wild. But as all things come to be(climbing areas or gathering points what ev), and even more so things next to roads, people discover the beauty on their own. Its normal they follows others to find it. Some people are better at discovering these spots for themselves, other need group of friends to muster the syke, to give them a reason to venture outwards.

    For us, when we stumbled by this particular climbing zone in Endo valley, it was by happenstance. We followed a road, and our climbing instincts, and found some rocks. We were motivated by what we saw, and we told out friends (not all of them) and wee didn’t post blogs about it. As our friends like climbing, they were intrigued immediately. The cycle began, this earthly cycle I was rambling about earlier. New boulders pop up. Knowledge is shared. People begin to interact. People climb on the rocks. Old friends meet up. New friends are made. Trash gets put on the ground, trash gets picked up. All the people have their different levels. Their different goals. Some are inspired to brush rocks and ascend them, others are inspired to take a photo, to capture the moment, to maybe inspire others…Many are there to watch others move on problems, climb on rock, and lay about, taking it all in.

    I was there to try my projects, the amazing things I had discovered. I was there to motivate my friends, and show them things they may enjoy. I was there to share the place. No matter what. I am always there, to interact with what nature has created, no matter how many other people may be doing the same thing.

    After 14 years rock climbing, I admit that for myself, It is possible to enjoy this cycle. I feel like rock climbing is defined by these factors which I have been describing. Its in the fundamental nature of what we are doing be seeing things and activating. When people climbed peaks, throughout history, others sometimes aimed to follow. Eventually many aimed to follow, and eventually many came together and lived and loved and died, all because of that process. Thus I feel this cycle is still something we remain within. This cycle of change, and evolution, which makes days easy to tell apart. Many of the comments I read throughout the responses to Jamie’s posting were very negative. Maybe I misunderstood them but it made me want to ramble this far, and maybe end with this. You cant hate the world, it is what provides us with all this wonderful life. The cycles which define the world, which passes throughout society all over the planet, is just as incredible as the physical things we engage. Climbing is something we can all share. Like food, and water, and space. And since climbing is done on the world, which keeps going round and round and round, it doesn’t really matter whether people don’t like which direction it is spinning, as it does what it wants, and will turn for however long it wants, the way it wants to.

  21. sammy d

    21. May, 2011

    funny. I’ve given up clean water, food, and a warm place to eat plenty of time to climb.

  22. fluke

    21. May, 2011

    David, your words are moving and inspired. i am sorry if mine were overbearing or came across as negative. certainly the spirit you convey is common to almost all the climbers i have had the privilege to meet along the way. and indeed most in the climbing community have a greater appreciation for the nuances of the moss and ice they pass along their way than any of the suits and ties that truly command the limits to prosperity and development of our communities, both large and small. but as i have witnessed climbing evolve from a subculture of passionate outliers to an increasingly, perhaps not mainstream, but at least popular sporting activity, i have also witnessed a transformation in the landscapes associated with climbing. all the tangential economic surpluses that accrue to communities supporting the climbing community are certainly welcome. Miguel and family enjoy a perhaps ideal example of the kind of positive relationship that the climbing community can foster with its local supporters. all i meant to draw attention to was the consequences of the intensity and extensiveness of our activities (park closures, access fees, trail erosion, litter, etc). and with this in mind, maintaining a respectful attentiveness to our presence. not just as climbers, but as human beings. you have a traveled enough to know that this (esp. climbing) life is a privilege. most in this life will never have the opportunity to enjoy the kind of peaceful meditations that traveling and climbing afford the soul. i wasn’t trying to be a downer. i just get a little concerned about perspective (or lack thereof) when certain people communicate their absolutist vision of the “climbing life” – as if it were something more than what it is: a simple yet joyous activity we are lucky to celebrate (clearly NOT talking about AID climbing, or Alpine climbing, or head pointing, or…). either way. as long as the community has role models such as yourself, Joe Kinder, Tim O’Neil, Mr. Sharma… i ain’t too fussed about it.

  23. big poppa chosscrush

    23. May, 2011

    “moss and ice lovers did not seem to flock.”

  24. fluke

    23. May, 2011

    ok, ok, ok, big poppa. i relent. as long as you promise not to go on any shooting sprees, i promise not to wax poetic about the virtues of looking out for the impact on our communities and the environments that support them.

  25. Ben

    23. May, 2011

    I think the idea of a secret spot in a National Park is rediculous. I for one am glad to see areas getting developed and for that matter documented with “video cameras”. I’ve been climbing 12 years but live in the southeast and don’t get a chance to visit the high country that often, therefore I thrive on the video shorts posted up on blogs and wedsites. Great job please keep developing and filming keeps me syked throughout the work week so that when my Saturday and Sunday come I can get out and pull myself!

  26. big poppa chosscrush

    23. May, 2011

    just keeping it light/ridiculous as a counterpoint… sharing with the community has its own virtue.

    none of us would be going to this area legally if it was not shared with us and protected by our communal money coffer.

    impact is a big deal. people need to recognize what they are doing and make a conscious effort to minimize needless destruction, trampeling, etc.

    however, much of the complaints about the increased use of this area only generally related to solid ecological impact as a justification for a more emotionally-based “NIMBY” posture on the issue.

    quite frankly, this forested section of the park seems much less fragile than tundra-covered areas and its increased use does not seem to push outside of the congressionally-mandated purpose of national park lands.

    now, empowered users, be sure to clean up after yourselves and keep your foot traffic to firm surfaces, rock if possible. don’t be spineless and fail to diplomatically point out when others, within your crew or without, need to clean up a bit better.

    for example, herm took it upon himself to clean up some discarded beer cans (that seemed at least a few seasons old, but not old enough to blame it on the indians, settlors, or road grading crew). he scanned around our gear looking for trash as well. his actions spoke loud enough as a reminder for us to do “idiot checks” when we packed up to leave to see if any refuse was inadvertantly left.

  27. Crafty

    24. May, 2011

    Herm also once found a receipt of mine that had innocently fallen out of my pocket or pack while climbing in Upper Chaos. It, apparently, had my full credit card number on it. He was kind enough to shred it, but also forward enough to point out my mistake.

    Point being: clean up after yourself. It could be embarrassing, financially costly, or just make boulderers and the places we climb at look bad. The most commonly left things seem to be tape wads and cigarette butts (I am a former smoker so I know these things can be easy to leave). Just take a look around before you depart.

  28. Courtney Sanders

    26. May, 2011

    Rocco- why do you work in the climbing industry if you don’t want it to progress? Isn’t designing your own clothes for climbing, shaping holds, and coaching all a form of progression? I definitely think professional climbers and other professional athletes have a place in the business realm. Business is crucial to our economy. Without pro athletes you have a minimal marketing department, little product feedback, and no iconic figures trying to motivate people to be active. Obviously climbing is much more than being active, but climbing does make you healthier. It’s like Fox News saying that the government donating to Movement climbing gym is a joke. How ignorant is that? Regardless, climbing creates jobs other than being a professional athlete, but pro athletes are necessary. Maybe you don’t look up to some professional climbers, but do you not use somewhat of their standard for either grading or proving what your capable of. Isn’t that a form of progression? Just a thought :)

  29. Rocco B.

    27. May, 2011

    Courtney. I don’t really work in the climbing industry, all of those things I do are hobbies. I don’t plan to make money off of clothing, definitely don’t make money from shaping, and have never made a dime coaching either. I make a small amount of money setting whenever I don’t have an alternative form of employment. I only do those things because I enjoy them, and don’t ever plan on making a career out of any of them. I love to be artistic and creative, and I really enjoy teaching.

    The problem I have with professional climbers is that many want the benefits of being pro athletes but none of the responsibility. Charity events, public appearances, being held accountable for their actions and influences….
    Pro athletes don’t motivate Americans to be active once said American public leaves college and their own hopes of pro stardom fade. Once that happens they become a vehicle for lazy people to sit on a couch drinking beer while watching their pro heros on a 50″ flat screen. Also, I believe that what climbing would have to become to be a viable form of entertainment for the general public would be far removed from what you do outside, and so it would become a totally different sport and would not benefit the people who dedicate themselfs to climbing outdoors equally to those who huck huge dynos and do bat hangs to entertain the Average Joe.

    I despise Fox News, but agree that giving a gym in a city with many other gyms an advantage over the competition by granting them Federal Funds without equal support of the other business endeavours is wrong.

    I don’t use anyones standard of grading because grades are the most subjective bit of bullshit ever. There is nothing concrete enough about grades to make any reliable standard. Progression in climbing, in my opinion, exists solely on a personal basis, from day to day, month to month, year to year without and influence or comparison to anyone’s improvement but your own.

    As far as Endo is concerned, and this is my final internet statement, I promise. I saw video online and witnessed crowds under each problem in the footage. I now have even more sympathy for the people who have quietly been enjoying this place prior to it’s “rediscovery”. I have often had to drive past every area in Joe’s Valley when the weather is nice, looking for a single spot with no cars. If an area so far removed from a major metropolitan area can become so innundated with people, I can only imagine what it must be like to find solitude in a world class, or in vogue, area in Colorado.

    I hope everyone understands that none of this is personal, it’s just one person voicing their opinions which happen to be different from what I’ve seen expressed.

  30. […] B3Bouldering blog would be one example as a blog that caters to the Colorado bouldering bubble scene, however the international prominence of his blog sort of puts it on a different level than […]

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