Rich Simpson called out

21. Dec, 2010

In regards to Animal and Dark Waters. I started both problems where the FAist started. I don’t see anything wrong. I think most who know me know that I keep far more strict ethics than most climbers.

I don’t think this Rich Simpson debacle would ever happen to me. Hundreds of people have seen me climb, and almost none of my ascents were climbed alone. Even though I don’t own a video camera, I went out of my way to insure there was one there when I climbed my hardest problem to date, Evil Backwards. I realize this response can be taken as defensive, but I am simply trying to state facts that are irrefutable. It is important to me that I have done what I say I have done.

There seems to be some disconnect going on here. I feel like what is being lost is that fundamentally I am a climber, and that means I spend countless hours with other people, climbing in the woods, sharing spots, failing, falling, sharing successes, eating dinner afterwards with everyone, talking about all of the ridiculous responses people leave on my site, etc. simply living the climbing life with hundreds of other climbers, and doing what I can to share with all of you the amazing new problems here in Colorado.
Regardless, because I am opinionated, I realize that one way people respond is by being critical of my own climbing. I am not perfect and perhaps I dabbed on something a while ago, or perhaps some people don’t think I started DW correctly. Regardless, I try to be as honest as I can, approach climbing with the highest standard that I can, and be open to the idea that no one is beyond questioning. Ironically, I seem to get questioned more than anyone. I appreciate the critique but I always hoped that this blog would not be so much about me personally, and more about thoughtful critique and response and first hand news accounts of the bouldering world and things here in Colorado.

Crimp'n Ain't Easy

22. Dec, 2010

b3,
a little while back you made a suggestion that sharma has been accused of similarly claiming to have done routes with unsubstantiated evidence. I asked you back then if you could explain a bit but didnt get any response. I am reminded of this event with the inpugnation of RS…think you could elaborate a bit on the controversy surrounding someone whose ticks i have head never called into question (aka sharma)…thanks

Consistency?

22. Dec, 2010

Where’s Paul’s uncut footage and witnesses who saw the ascent? I mean if we’re trying to be consistent here….

michael rathke

22. Dec, 2010

@RGod, & everyone else

you dont have to post it Jamie, its in the past

sammy d

22. Dec, 2010

I have seen people in the past that are ridiculously strong claiming to have done a boat load of shit they may have never even seen. It’s not just one or two questionable accents but more the blatantly absurd statements of running a sub 4 min mile that can be discrediting.

money robs your soul

22. Dec, 2010

if your a pro climber ya gotta pay the piper.

He took their money so he’s gotta prove his accomplishments.

If he is trying to prove that it is easy to lie about pro accomplishments, then he succeeded.

I’ve always lived by the notion that it is only a rock. This makes you not take it too seriously. That does not mean that you can’t love it and devote your life to it, but if you take it too seriously then one day you might find your self on a rope smashing bolts, even thought you never would have thought you’d do something like that in a million years.

Enjoy the ride

Pat

22. Dec, 2010

I have a suggestion. In the future, if you want the discussions on your blog to focus on the post, and not necessarily bring up and re-hash old arguments, censor comments that would divert the discussion. You clearly seem frustrated that people would rather debate your specific ethics, than the issue you present. I agree that it is pretty lame, as the Rich Simpson debacle is far more interesting than whether or not you, or anyone else started properly on Dark Waters.

You do a great job of presenting educated, well thought-out and well written issues and news, and oftentimes the discussions take away from that, because you are forced to spend so much time defending yourself. Why not save yourself the trouble, and not allow the arguments to start in the first place?

Patrick

P.S. You don’t actually need to post this, I’m just offering up a suggestion.

B3

22. Dec, 2010

I don’t remember this Sharma incident? I can’t recall suggesting Chris hadn’t climbed anything. I think his reputation is stellar.

Crimp'n Ain't Easy

22. Dec, 2010

I might have fudged up and conflated sharma and schutte as the evasive chris.

….http://www.b3bouldering.com/2010/10/11/lincoln-lake-review/#comments

shucks, my b

B3

22. Dec, 2010

@Pat
I am just trying to give everyone a voice, and I don’t want to censure comments, but as they seem to get more and more ridiculous, I may have to.

dpg

22. Dec, 2010

Maybe comments that are out of context of the current subject matter be posted to a new subject or side message board.

While I do not believe strict RULES should be constructed for outdoor climbing; I do believe ethics are absolutely crucial to the acceptance and evolution of climbing.

Please keep up the excellent work.

While I do not beleive strict rules being associated with climbing, I do feel ethics must be interpreted and enforced.

Please keep up such interesting

Rgod

22. Dec, 2010

@ michael rathke

I don’t know what you are talking about. I have never met Jamie. My comment addressed the improper use of the present and past tense.

Clearly, it is a sensitive subject in someone’s mind.

JR

22. Dec, 2010

We have a climber in my neck of the woods (the northeast) who’s been lying about his ascents since at least around the time I was a beginner (mid 90s). I’ll keep his name anonymous.

At this point it’s pretty funny. He usually has some newbies fooled, but everyone else knows about it and it just makes for a good topic to come back to with fresh updates, like when he told people he climbed China Glide before Kinder got the FA.

A downright living local legend. It’s just a good thing he hasn’t tried getting publicity.

michael rathke

22. Dec, 2010

if ura pro klymbhar u gotsta pai d pied pypr

if ur knotta pro klymbhar we git u munhe

if your momma climbz soft v14 u better have a vid or else
we wont b lee dat

if you’re goin to teh buttharmilkz n u send teh buttharmilkhar u r automaticily paying sum 1

o shute, i drank 2 much wine, i m actin like jj now

sorry’z

laterz

BigA

22. Dec, 2010

JR mentions an interesting aspect of climbing liars….ability. Its so much harder to believe some knucklehead in the NE managed to snag China Glide before Joe Kinder, especially if his abilities don’t line up with their claims.

In the case of Rich Simpson, it seems his abilities HAVE lined up with his claims, or at least to a greater degree than most liars. Does this mean he was telling the truth? Maybe, or maybe it just means he was better at it than others, ie he knew what he could get away with.

Some liars around here have made claims that are so much more outlandish then Rich’s, and they could likely never ever do any of the moves on Perky Pinky.

For example, one individual has claimed to have “onsight soloed” Kansas City. This route is pretty accessible, but to truly “onsight” it would be impressive. To solo it (it is a 5.12 20 foot roof, with slippery and insecure movements) even after having it wired would be simple madness. To combine both is so wildly outlandish, its laughable.

Another individual claimed a solo of LA roof, which was best to my knowledge an unrepeated 13b of Russ Clune’s. One of the reasons it still likely unrepeated is because shortly after the FA, the State Park stripped the fixed pins from the line. So anyone working it would have to replace the pins first, and then get to work. To date, there are still no pins. However, this has not stopped someone from claiming to solo it, which in essence, is claiming to onsight solo it based on the previous info…

Climbing is apparently not immune to the pitfalls of other sports. Anyone can make unsubstantiated claims, and as a community we tend to go along with it, until the claims pile up and the actual abilities do not.

BigA

22. Dec, 2010

PS
JR, if you are reading this email me. Would love some info on your NE individual

andrewsalo@hotmail.com

michael rathke

22. Dec, 2010

James, everything in this topic makes sense but
you could have said “climb” and “climbed” when you said “do” and “done” but I know what you are talking about.

you continue to assume that climbs werent climbed because there is no evidence.

michael rathke

22. Dec, 2010

clearly this is a sensitive subject to someone if they say something to you about something like that

campusman

22. Dec, 2010

michael, he said doing…but it still doesnt matter in this case

did you get your phd yet?

cardboard_dog

23. Dec, 2010

dude RGod .. Michael Rathke is Campusman. Hope that clears things up for you.

gabor

25. Dec, 2010

In response to the Dark Waters discussion, climbing is very subjective and a global agreement about ethics will never be reached. While I do not agree with where Jamie started the problem, my opinion is no more valid then his in the end. In fact, I would say that Jamie’s ethics are a lot more valid then mine as he has done a lot more bouldering then I have and is way more involved in the climbing community. What is frustrating, however, is when Jamie goes around and tells people how “soft” the problem is and that is is the Colorado standard for V12. Whether or not he started “correctly”, starting with your feet under you instead of already around the lip adds substantial difficulty to the problem, and while where he started may feel like V12 to him, starting with your feet where Daniel did definitely felt harder then most V12s I have done. Does this make it V13? I have no idea, but if you are going to say that a problem is definitely not the grade that it was given, take into consideration that you climbed an easier version of the established problem. Point in case, quit calling my first V13 easy Jamie!!!!!!!!!!!!

gabor

25. Dec, 2010

*To correct my last sentence, before I get berated, i meant “quit calling my first V13 V12

B3

25. Dec, 2010

Gabor, many ascentionists, like Scott Hahn, Brian Camp, Dustin Saunders, Sander Pick call Dark Waters V12. I am not the only one. I think it’s V12. Saunders climbed it for his first V12. Unlikely that he would skip a grade and impressive that he climbed a difficult V12.

michael rathke

25. Dec, 2010

where your hands start and finish matter not where your feet ever go.

For DW, Dh2o’s was V13 and possibly thoughts about the climb being even more difficult were coming into mind as Ddubs “repeated in the ABS Nationals” that Saturday.

Once beta is revealed the climb is easier. (yeah, so what?)
even little things come into play after the FA like put your foot here, there is an tiny intermediate out left…many things make climbs easier after the First Ascentionist works the hardest for beta.
The climb always becomes easier but not only after FA’s and beta, we have videos.. Videos are like cheating nowadays..seeing someone do that climb…back then..dude they just always struggled.

merry x-mas

25. Dec, 2010

I can just feel the love.

Merry x-mas!

Oh yeah….Not taking sides but I have to say that just cause someone climbs more and is more involved in the community does not mean they win ethical debates without question.

By the way who cares! Have fun, climb well into the new year

gabor

26. Dec, 2010

Hmm, that does not address my point at all. I was expecting a better comeback then that!

Kaelen W

26. Dec, 2010

‘Murky Waters’, V12, FA Jamie Emerson hahaha

michael rathke

26. Dec, 2010

I Send climbs in GL that many think are are just as hard as I think, others feel they are easier or harder than what I think.
its cool
Dougs Roof is the Michigan standard for 5.10

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs047.snc3/13446_407019319258_504349258_4171696_1739328_n.jpg

Timmer

26. Dec, 2010

when is someone going to call out Paul R. for not doing L. dreaming? he climbed it by himself!

Mathieu

27. Dec, 2010

Big up filmed Paul.

Daniel

27. Dec, 2010

I don’t know if BigUp filmed the actual send or if the ascent in the Reel Rock movie has been put together from various tries. There is, however, an uncut piece of him coming very close to sticking the last hold before the easier topout starts. There have also been a lot of witnesses. Maybe his girlfriend witnessed the real send? But it’s not really important, isn’t it? Paul has a pretty impeccable track record. I’m sure he climbed it. Maybe it’ll be downgraded but that’s part of the game apparently. BTW, Woods seems to have downgraded Jade. Have a look at his scorecard.

time to shine

28. Dec, 2010

Paul has a pretty impeccable track record???????
there is some very strange stories about paul
and lucid dreams i was told the Big up guys said they dont think he did it.
Come on…. climbing this huge problem by yourself????? i dont think so.
I think paul wants to keep up with daniel woods with The Game. Who would call paul out with a ticklist like his? no one and thats a shame

BIG POPPA CHOSSCRUSH

29. Dec, 2010

i didn’t read the article. no time. for devil’s advocacy, i have come to realize that there are individuals in this world who would refuse to acknowledge or dignify a ridiculous charge with a response. such self righteious individuals might even say F U take your damn shoes back! rather than get swept into a debat that questions their credibility.

is this a possibility for simpson, or are the facts farily damning?

‘refusing to respond and tendering a resignation’ does not a confession make.

though it certainly raises eyebrows.

Jeremy

30. Dec, 2010

I have a bit of an issue with people calling Paul out on LD. Take a look at the video – he does all the hard moves in one go, which we clearly see in the video, and as mentioned previously, he almost holds the last swing in one video sequence. Are you telling me if he put another bit of effort into it he couldn’t have done the whole thing? That’s ridiculous to argue differently. The kid puts down V14 in 30min or less at times. Let’s be realistic, once someone of that ability does boulder problems in overlapping parts, it eventually gets done.

CBdog

30. Dec, 2010

seriously. And what th F ever. I have had the honor of being friends with 3 people who crush big numbers on a regular basis and don’t give a s@#t about acknowledgement or sponsoship. and I can tell you that if a video camara was ever in the mix, it was usually just coincidence.

Adam .. you crush. I’m sorry that no video camara was there to catch you sending the long standing 3 star prow project. Or a spotter. I doubt you did it. I also doubt you did the Pinch project. I think you just wanted to use the name Whisper down the Lane.

BTW .. while you were crushing the pinch .. uncle filthy had a month in Hueco that would have landed ANY sponsored climber in the mags. A tick list that included 12 V12′s.

This argument is REDICULOUS.

@time to shine/ the Truth / Troll … mimic PR’s tic list. Send what he’s sent faster and in better style and then maybe you can start to call him out. PR was a well known east coaster before he moved out west and I can tell you anyone that ever spent a few hrs climbing with him never doubted that he sent something with no one else around. again. this argument is RETARDED.

RS

31. Dec, 2010

Solution is simple – Require all ascents to be recorded on 8a.nu, along with a required field for “witness”. Even have a video upload function for “uncut” footage. Otherwise climbers will debate endlessly about the politics of credible ascents.

Aren’t there more critical matters you guys can focus on? Or is this climbing’s version of tabloid gossip? Seriously, who gives a #$%^? None of you are changing the world by climbing harder and harder pieces of rock. It’s just climbing, an inherently worthless activity. Life goes on.

bishop local

31. Dec, 2010

Paul awoke at 4am and did it by himself with out waking the film crew or anybody. He claims the humidy from a coming rain storm that drenched the area made it easier for him. I’m not calling bs but… That climb is tall. he even stated himself that he found the top much harder than he expected. So then he does it without crash pads in the fall zone (i’m guessing he didn’t hike multiple pads up himself and arrange them for the topout… but i wasn’t there at 4am….)or a spot… As for doing things in overlaping sections that does not mean its a done deal. case in point booby bensman on 7pm tonight show, close, so close, but never sent. Screw it i’m going to call full on louie anderson bs!!! he is a liar!!!!

Seth

31. Dec, 2010

Jamie.

This shit is getting out of hand…. seriously. I hope you have a less controversial post happening soon.

Maybe something about FA’s up the Poudre? Thanks holmes.

big poppa chosscrush

31. Dec, 2010

getting a film crew awake and moving and on location and set up, ready to shoot for actual pre-dawn send burns?

herding cats. never gonna happen.

i have no first hand knowledge of the lucid dreaming event, as none of you do, but i can say this: i have certainly pissed on projects of mine at day’s first light despite having slipped off or pumped out or straight up failed at during normal visiting hours. that’s the magic of climbing. we’ve all felt it.

all the speculation on this will never yield and answer and is therefore a waste.

especially due to the ties to his father’s memory, i would believe that of any line, THIS ONE would have been personally important to paul to do in a flawless style. and if any details were fuged, that’s a stain that paul will have to live with and keep between he and his father.

regardless, without any reason to doubt him, i for one feel much more motivated and inspired by his account of the send than any fully-witnessed, fully-paparazzi’d circus.

i for one would prefer to believe that someone fully capable of the world’s hardest moves could tap into that strange early morning psych/power and put together a magical and personally profound send.

it resounds more deeply with my reality and experience at this game.

ironic

31. Dec, 2010

It is ironic that paul is ok with Lucid’s topout by himself but he did not want to do Nalle’s problem in South africa with pads and a spotter.

The irony is that a sponsorship does not mean that you crush. I saw Sharma comment on a deep water soling vid that I downloaded (I mean borrowed) it has to do with people who can sell shoes/gear (which makes perfect sense). Yes you do have to climb at a certain lever but I doubt companies could careless if all accents are documented unless people get called out like Richard just did. The only people that it really matters to is the competitive part of the climbing community.

Happy new year to all cause it’s great temps here

JamesO

31. Dec, 2010

Bishop Local,

This is simply untrue, I was there for Big Up’s last filming session. They left Bishop much before Paul sent Lucid Dreaming. Although I am less certain your other claims are false I feel they likely are from this first discrepancy. Also it seems that you have not seen this boulder problem. There is no “fall zone” on the top out, you cannot “arrange” pads for the topout. It is a 50 foot slab. Maybe 5 or 6 moves after the crux crash pads are completely pointless.

michael rathke

01. Jan, 2011

it was 50 degreez in out in GL yesterday

new topic plz
i dont care if paul sent pastaman abrasion sit, low, weakman vibration lay down, lucid weaping or anything u weakmos want to dub the climb after the first ascentionist named the line..worrying or caring about someone elses ascents is not sending-i’m callin all you weakmos out

joeyjoejoe

02. Jan, 2011

Yes, this is a very strange discussion. The footage of Daniel on ‘The Game’ is edited, as well. Should we doubt his ascent?

Paul said he was inspired by a dream of his dead father the night before he sent Lucid Dreaming. Would any of you lie about your dead father just to make bouldering news?

michael rathke

03. Jan, 2011

Thats cool paul named LD after a dream about his dad

John Meget

04. Jan, 2011

If Paul has no witnesses to LD, I don’t think the climbing community should count this as an FA. No reflection on Paul. I just feel that for any breakthrough-type send, someone other than the climber must verify it. btw, it should be someone besides a signficant other.

jazz cat

04. Jan, 2011

earth to john, you are a fool

Cardboard_dog

04. Jan, 2011

@John Meget ..

the verification comes in the form of another climber at that level getting the second ascent .. than a third .. than a fourth .. and so on using Pauls beta until new beta is figured out and it either gets downgraded or stays the same. Thats how it’s always worked. It called faith in the honor system. Thats why pro golfers still turn in their OWN score card.
If everyone starts dragging video camaras to the crag with their ipods and bs, the best areas will inevitably become circus freak shows.

John Meget

05. Jan, 2011

Cardboard: I don’t see how someone else doing the boulder confirms that Paul did it. It merely shows they did it.

Unfortunately the honor system doesn’t always work. That is the whole topic of this article, isn’t it?

Pro golfers turn in their own score, but they don’t play alone. They play with one or two other golfers. Each group has an official with it, and also someone who carries a scoreboard that shows where each golfer in the group stands against par. On top of this, pro golfers in contention typically are televised. All this has led to costly penalties the golfers did not expect, most recently at the last “major” tournament of 2010, where Dustin Johnson was taken out of a playoff due to a two-stroke penalty on the last hole that officials saw, but Dustin was blind to.

In short, I don’t think golf backs up your point.

Jazz cat, instead of name-calling, can you explain why my point is foolish?

Michael Rathke

05. Jan, 2011

If a man sends a problem in the woods and he is the only one there, not everyone has to believe the ascent.

If one doesnt believe an ascent because there isnt video evidence or witnesses then in fairness you have to prove your point some way also. Maybe buying a video from the government is the only way you can have proof of your rediculous argument with Rock Climbing! This arguing we are doing is not Rock Climbing. I have the best points out of anyone and there is a reason.

What one should do is just climb for themself. I had the most ascents out of anyone in the world in June. I suggest that you dont worry about my last statement. Until evidence is submitted of your rediculous argument with Rock Climbing you cant prove any point about what you ASS U ME.

big poppa chosscrush

05. Jan, 2011

I DEMAND UNCUT FOOTAGE OF ALL PRO GOLFER ROUNDS OF GOLF BECAUSE THAT TELEVISED CRAP IS TOO EDITED TO COUNT STROKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

also, tiger woods cannot count any of his mistresses as valid witnesses.

this is stupid.

i still live in a world where the ethics of a claimed ascent occuring during a spiritual moment shared with your deceased father should not be questioned since you have mad skillz, have pissed on many cutting edge testpieces, and have worked the hell out of the project in question, EVEN IF you may have dabbed on that one v10 in ’03 and put it on your hatespray.spew spraysheet anyway.

i still live in a world where the personal importance of an ascent is directly related, not inversely related, to the necessary cleanness of your ascent.

oh, and excellent point by james o. other than emerson and camp, who hasn’t climbed a tall line alone, knowing that if they blew the topout, grevious bodily injury or death would result, irrespective whether there were some pads beneath?

if there were any tricky moves on the slab, had paul top roped and wired them during any of his billion working days?

have any of you ever climbed a “tricky topout slab”? usually, this means that an oldschool eldo v0 awaits at the top of a v-sick, which is thin enough and tall enough to be scary, but actually quite easy if you take your time on any one of the 55 no-hands stances.

you’re welcome for mitigating your stupid. an invoice will follow at the close of the month.