Mt. Evans

Posted on 16. Aug, 2010 by in News

Just a quick update from Wolverineland. Carlo Traversi and James Litz made repeats of Daniel Woods’ The Exfoliator, and it seems that this problem will settle at V13. Litz also repeated Small Arms V11 and Phobos V11. Dave Graham continues his rampage by putting up an amazing compression climb Clan of the Cave Bears V13. I tried another project yesterday that is probably at least V11. There is no other area in Colorado that has so many difficult problems. I am very busy lately with guidebook work but will have some more updates soon!

46 Responses to “Mt. Evans”

  1. […] of  The Exfoliator on his 8a scorecard Carlo thought V13 might be a more appropriate grade.  B3Bouldering also reports that James Litz repeated The Exfoliator and “it seems that this problem will settle at […]

  2. sock hands

    16. Aug, 2010

    is the new project the one i brushed with tim/ryan? if so, psyched you kids go on it. i was hoping it was another v9, but it broke my heart and mind when it seemed WAY harder than that.

    before falling asleep last night, i thought that perhaps the crux could be done jumping leftwards to the arete adn catching the right sidepull to kill the swing.

    if executed like a ninja, this could be insane and awesome and rad.

    if executed unlike a ninja, this could end the structural integrity of your arms, lets, neck, and/or face.

    did anyone stick the move to the arete?

    OMG OMG

    i’m saddened by this weekend and i feel that i let down my son and family lineage by, as the british loving children say, “punting” off of SM.

    if i had japanese steel, i may have had to leave an orphin.

  3. B3

    16. Aug, 2010

    Nope, Brian, Litz and I tried that one. I think it will be 8A or 8A+. Didn’t do the first move but really close. Did all the matching, but not the move to the left, but i didn’t try that one. Psyched to get back.

  4. sock hands

    16. Aug, 2010

    right exit would def be easier with slaps out to the juggy arete, but without much for lefthand/foot opposition, not dabbing could be very irritatingly difficult.

    psyched for it to get done.

  5. ejw

    16. Aug, 2010

    So what’s the deal with phobos? Is the grade discrepancy related to the true start of the line? I see dave changed his log of the ascent to 7B+…

  6. B3

    16. Aug, 2010

    First of all, the only person who has actually climbed Phobos from where Dave started it is myself, that I am aware of. Secondly, Dave and I think it is V11, and I think so do other climbers, who have tried it multiple days and have not climbed it. I guess maybe it could be V10, but I am under the impression that the serious downgrades are for some competitive reasons and not actual opinions, although I could be wrong. Dave is frustrated I think with some of the attitudes out at the boulders.

  7. Whatever

    16. Aug, 2010

    I started exfoliator after the first move because the first move was weird. Thats ok right?! I thought it was V11. I renamed it to “Pole Dandy”. Did i mention how awesome I am? I should tell more people how awesome I am.

  8. so sad

    17. Aug, 2010

    Man I hope Dave does not get down being around all the young gun competitive kids.

    I know that I usually climb so much worse when the energy is off. I even have people that I am friends with but when they get outside they start talking about grades and get jealous of other folks that it kills the flow.

    Hence why you have to find your own granite fields in NC

    Good to hear crushing going down out there

  9. Scott

    17. Aug, 2010

    Downgrading (or calling everything soft) seems to be the name of the game these days in Colorado. I’m a casual observer but it seems like whenever someone repeats a hard line out there they downgrade it, call it soft, or both. It seems as though calling things “soft” or downgrading has become the new way to get attention i.e. Carlo Traversi and Jade.

    Take “The Exfoliator”, Woods and Graham both called it V14. Briefly looking at scorecards, I’d say they have a good idea what V14 is and feels like. Then, Carlo repeats it and says “it felt like V12” calling it soft V13.

    Certainly, Carlo isn’t the only one doing this, that’s just the first example I can think of. And, maybe it isn’t a bad thing. But, it’s seeming more and more like jealousy/competition among the elite boulderers and less like it’s in the interest of accuracy these days. Just my opinion, I’ll never climb at these grades, but I enjoy hearing about them/seeing the footage.

  10. Kaelen

    17. Aug, 2010

    Is wolverineland going to be in the guidebook?

  11. Jon G

    17. Aug, 2010

    I climbed Phobos the other day with the rest of the “young guns” and started it the same way that Jamie and Dave did it. In fact I started without a right hand at all and touched both of the potential start holds before making upward progress. I have no idea about grades but the temps down there were amazing the day I did it. it seemed reasonable to call it V10 and I could see V11 as well.

    There is no downgrading war going on at all. I think it is in the nature of the first ascent to grade according to how it felt to you at the time and I’m sure a lot of problems down there will have fluctuating grades over the coming weeks when people repeat them. The consensus of a grade cant happen until other people climb it to confirm right?

    There have also been a dozen or so repeats of Kevin J’s “Rebellion” from the believed start. When Kevin made the FA he started on two tiny crimps below the obvious start so that he wouldn’t get “snaked” out of a lower start to his problem. He admitted that it was a stupid start and agreed that it should start on the obvious, head height, start hold, instead of the nasty crimps at waist level.

    Either way, the problems at Lincoln Lake are fantastic and I’m looking forward to climbing on all of them and giving my opinion about grades in an honest effort to find some consensus and consistency.

    Jon G.

  12. Maxim

    17. Aug, 2010

    http://climbingczar.louderthan11.com/?p=216

    thoughts on the subject.

    Also, I head Luke Parady rep’d the Exfoliator same day and suggested V11….

  13. Colin

    17. Aug, 2010

    Climbers have a tendency to work a hard route or boulder problem to death – refining movements and developing strength over many mind-numbing and anti-climactic sessions, seeking beta from others who’ve done the route/problem when they’re stumped, blaming earlier failures to send on bad conditions – and then when everything comes together in that perfect moment they send, it “feels easy”, and they call the problem soft.

    I’m sure almost all of us have had the humbling experience of getting shut-down on an old, sent project. You say to yourself, “Damn, this rig is harder than i remembered” and try to convince the onlookers that you did indeed float up it back in the day 😉

  14. ejw

    17. Aug, 2010

    Hmm, well hopefully I didn’t stir the pot to much by commenting on the issue. It seems Max has some thoughts on the issue as well now. -http://climbingczar.louderthan11.com/?p=216

    It’s a shame if ego is the driving factor in this issue, but I’m not really in the position to pass judgement on anyone so I will leave it at that.

  15. […] the downgrading happening in the area on some of the recently climbed project. Have fun reading on B3Bouldering. Picture and news extract courtesy of the Low […]

  16. @ whatever

    17. Aug, 2010

    u are awesome whatever, i think yer new line is dope,i got the second today and it felt a little soft to me…. like v10 but i skipped the 1st and 2nd move because like u said it felt weird.

  17. sock hands

    17. Aug, 2010

    after all the angst is burnt off like greasy burger fat on the grill fire, we are left with black char and the haunting realization that the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

  18. campusman

    17. Aug, 2010

    i 1 2 b n CO

  19. eb

    17. Aug, 2010

    …perhaps Dave understands now what the first ascender of Kheops assis (V15, Font) felt when Dave started 2 holds higher, sitting on a pad and downgrading it to soft V14…

    Cheating problems is common everywhere. No, I’m not talking about finding new beta that makes a problem easier (who does The Mandala with Chris’ heinous double gaston swing?), I’m talking about starting in the correct way:
    Who does start at the same holds than Fred on La danse des Balrogs, one of the world’s first V13? or on the ones Chris used for Buttermilker , V13? Who finishes all the way left on the lip of Black Shadow, V13 ? not that many, but still everybody take the 13 points…
    And actually, how many people really start their arses on the ground for a sit start, and not on 1 (or 2) pads? …or even not seating on anything at all and half standing like Ty Landman on Kheops assis (see unclesomebody ‘between the trees’ video, it’s laughable). Perhaps he doesn’t know that ‘assis’ means ‘sit’… ? ..but in the same time in the vid we can see he cheated on the start of several other problems at Font and Switzerland…

    Of course one can argue that only the line define a problem and starting at certain precise holds is stupid, like imposing a beta. But then that’s actually the only things that defines a problem: where it starts, and where it finishes. And it is by those criteria that the first ascender graded his effort. If one starts on 5 pads to reach the mailbox of Amandla, no one would credit him of the crux mouve, hence the problem. Well, why would it be different for sit starts and even any starts ? If you don’t start to the same holds you are not doing the same problem, simple. Then obviously your impression of the effort (thus the grade) will be different.

    Bouldering has only few rules (stand/sit start, topout, dab etc..), let’s follow them. Just climb to the top on the V1 descent face of the boulder otherwise.

  20. ck

    18. Aug, 2010

    well EB, sit down starts are a nice concept, but how do you measure and compare the performance of two people on the same start? for example if a friend of mine, lets say he´s 190cm, makes the FA of a new problem from a sd, an i want to repeat it, lets say with my size of 165cm… well, how many pads if any i am allowed to do exactly the same move!? if i have to haul myself much more in and can´t even really reach the starting hold? and do you have to write down the exact thickness of his crashpad or if he used one? do you see the problem? i have, in my ten years of bouldering, come to the conclusion that the only fair and comparable start can be one with everyone starting at the same holds and all points off from the ground, so to say crouching like maybe ty and many other people do. every “real” sitstart is nice but very much depending on your body measures, not only height but also length of torso, legs, arms, … and shouldn´t the real climbing be the hard part not getting your ass from the ground? little bit besides the topic, but i had to point that out. i guess it is up to the first ascender to decide also how the term sit down start is defined.

  21. Narc

    18. Aug, 2010

    EB brings up an interesting point. Who is responsible for policing this “cheating”. How is the public that consumes this media supposed to even know about these things? Is it even important? I would say yes but again who can we expect to police except the climbers themselves??

  22. Jon G.

    18. Aug, 2010

    Thats why we have the Sheriff Narc!!!!

    Jon G.

  23. sock hands

    18. Aug, 2010

    I CHEAT ON ALL HARD CLIMBS WITH EASY CLIMBS THAT HAVE HAD A LOT OF TRAFFIC BECAUSE HARD CLIMBS DO NOT PUT OUT 4 ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

    wait, what?

  24. eb

    18. Aug, 2010

    @ narc – to a certain extent, things are known among climbers. Some climbers do not have a good reputaiton ethic-wise…
    And with the increase of mediatisation, recognition, sponsors, money (?) in bouldering one might predict less ethic in the future. In the same time nowadays people ‘expect’ uncut footage as proof of an ascent (perhaps as a consequence of past ‘robbery’) and there it is clear where people started and finished etc.. Also sponsors seems to care more about the image and charisma (hence his reputation) of the climber than solely his scrorecard.

    @ ck, I see exactly where you are coming from. I’m personally 182 cm and terrible at sit starts, perhaps because of I’m tall (or perhaps because I am too weak or too stiff).

    But when I cannot do properly a sit start problem I do not start 2 holds higher and crouching and pretend I did the problem. And I even less downgrade it.

    That was precisely my point about the Phobos stuff and the Kheops assis issue. For the lattest, no repeaters started at the same holds than the first ascender but all claimed to have done the same problem and downgraded it.

    I am not saying that the holds where the first ascender started were the most logical or “fair” but that’s how he defined the problem and the grade, any people pretendig repeating it must do the same. Otherwise they should be clear about that: “I started 2 holds higher and crouched and like that, it wasn’t V15”. Fair enough. And honest.

    Sit starts are fortunately not that often the cruxes, and there are enough great lines around where they do not (or without sit start at all).

    To come back to the morphology issue, well there will always be types of problems favoring certain morphologies.
    There are clearly some problems that short peoples will have more difficulties on than tall ones (The Island, Hale Bopp is likely V11 for 165 cm but maybe more like V9 for over 180) and vice versa (low sit starts etc.)
    And there is probably no solution to that. It’s unfair that some people can do things than other can’t but well, that’s the case in many sports: Usain Bolt is 196cm and has very long legs and for the same number of steps he is 10 meters ahead of 170cm guys. But we don’t ask him to start 10 meters behind because of that…
    However, it is likely that Usain Bolt would have been terrible at gymnastics where 160cm guys rule…

  25. christopher schulte

    18. Aug, 2010

    eb.
    while i do agree with you on a couple of points, i’m very curious as to what you mean when you say the starting holds on kheops assis are lower than the ones that dave, ty, and myself started from. i do understand the difference between assis and debout, and i can see you point, however small. the crux of the line is surely not pulling your ass off the ground on a jug and a good sloper. my understanding of the downgrade stems from the use of a different hold in the middle crux of the problem, namely, a terrible sloper for the right hand rather than the traditional sharp crimp one uses prior to the crux move. I am certain that the use of this hold (the sloper) makes the problem much harder. I can’t speak for ty and dave verbatim, but i assure you I HAVE NOTHING BUT THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR THE HISTORY AND TRADITION OF FONT, ITS CLIMBING, AND ITS CLIMBERS, including antoine v. and his historical achievement. this is my absolute favorite area on earth; and as far as the boulder in question and the motivations you guess at: i made four trips to font before i climbed this boulder. i don’t get paid for climbing. nor does ty.
    if you have some different information regarding the start of this problem, i would very much like to know, as i have climbed on this problem with locals like vincent pochon, christophe laumone, olivier lebreton, and kevin lopata; oddly, this lower set of holds has never come up in discussion. i am very curious as to who you are to speak with such authority, and i’d very much like to continue this conversation. you can reach me at wuquan12@hotmail.com; i’ll return to font this february/march, as well. then we can discuss in person and on-site the difference between the lines in question and the validity of Antoine’s ascent of “kheops” assis, with a different hold than the original, and other bits of history, like when julien nadiras almost made the first ascent, only to return to find his small and previously unnoticed heel hook to have been chiseled away by parties wishing to retain the aesthetic of the original crux move. write anytime, i hope we can meet, share some excellent vin du pays, and that you are a real font climber, not just some web-junkie.
    thanks
    please forgive my tone, i do believe you’ve touched on something special. i probably spent more time trying to climb this line than any other, ever, and could quit climbing and be happy to know that i climbed it. which i did. from a sit start.
    do contact me, please; if not only to appease yourself, but to edify me: if i there is more climbing that can be done on this magnificent line, i’m excited to do so.
    however, if i am asked to start with my knees in my face and lower than the obvious pocket and sloper, SITTING, i’ll probably be a little put out. THEN we can discuss the motivation for starting a problem as such. i have a feeling it may end up like kevin jorgenson’s statement regarding “rebellion”.
    or maybe you could put some tape on the holds? ;D
    merci, and bonne chance.

  26. christopher schulte

    18. Aug, 2010

    one more:
    we do distinguish between the buttermilker (v13 8b) and the buttermilker stand start (v12 8a+). the differing starts came from breakage, re-ascension from a stand (by a frenchman and a hero), and the re-ascension of the sit, which somehow fell out of fashion for a time.

  27. christopher schulte

    18. Aug, 2010

    http://bleau.info/rempart/12297.html
    photo sequence. description.

  28. eb

    18. Aug, 2010

    Chris,

    Thank you very much for your detailed comment. I am honoured you took the time to respond.

    Thanks for the invitation to talk in private but I don’t mind replying to you here.

    I will disappoint you because I’m nobody, even not a true bleausard and I will never climb those problems. You can call me a web-junkie if you like. However, I do go out and climb from time to time, here and there since over 10 yrs and have seen some other people climbing too.
    I did talked about those problems that everybody know to make a point about ethics (or lack of such) that is, I think, valid for any boulder problems (proper sit-starts, etc..).
    I believe that my point would not have been appreciated to the same level if I was talking about the V10 problems I can do (and that most of the readers here have never heard about). But perhaps I was wrong.
    In any case I accept the criticisms if it is judged innapropriated and if only the ones who climbed the problems mentioned before can comment.
    In the same time we all watch and comment sport feats that we are totally incapable of doing (soccer, baseball etc..).

    I believe I’m free to say my opinion and, for me, somebody starting half standing on a sit-start V4 or V14 has not done the problem. The same for someone not starting with the same holds etc..
    But that’s just my own opinion and since I’m nobody I don’t see why it should bother anybody. I’m personally not bothered when climbers claim such ascent, just amused.

    However I apologise if I came accross as ‘speaking with such authority’, or if I offended you (or anybody else), that was not what I meant. I wish I was expressing myself in my mothertongue – it is not the first time my tone when writing in English has been understood as more ‘hard’ than I wish.

    Concerning the starting holds of Kheops assis. I say it with no ill will, but on the pictures on bleau.info you indicated I do not see any where Antoine is seatted… I saw him starting lower than on the first pic.
    In any case, I suggest you talk with him directly as he is the only true person appropriate in this case.

    happy climbing

  29. tom

    19. Aug, 2010

    I wonder how the original B3 boulderers would think of the present state of Colorado bouldering.

  30. christopher schulte

    19. Aug, 2010

    i appreciate your reply, even though we have to talk here, apparently.
    i will not attempt to suggest that anyone may not share their opinion, and there is no need to claim yourself as a nobody or a web junkie. like i said, i hope you aren’t, and that you are informed enough to know what you’re talking about.
    i hope i made it clear that it is very important to me where the problem starts, and that all information i have had suggests that there is no lower start. if there is, this is absolutely the first i’ve heard of it, and i’m interested in the historical perspective and significance (and to “do” the problem :D), as the climbing in font goes pretty far beyond a number and a name, a tick on the list, for me in many ways. i posted the link above that names starting holds, and shows Antoine on the boulder, with chalk on the holds, none lower than those that Dave, Ty, and I started from.
    when i see him antoine next, of course i’ll ask.
    other than this, your english is excellent, your tone and voice accurate; it’s the substance of what you have to say that concerns me: that I nor any other repeater has actually climbed the line, and that it’s unimportant to any of us where the true start is, that our beliefs and ethics are somehow more flexible or questionable than your own.
    once more, i do appreciate your opinion regarding the ethics of a true sit start and the loyalty to the line, especially one like this. i agree that climbers must “police themselves”, but this is a personal, and internal matter, not one for anyone to guess at wildly.
    maybe this can help:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogTs1YFsp6g
    no hard feelings, stranger.

  31. B3

    19. Aug, 2010

    @ Chris If climbers are earning an income from companies, (be it free gear or a paycheck), for the climbs they say they climb, how exactly should they police themselves? Would the posting of uncut footage of their ascents fulfill that need you say exists?

  32. christopher schulte

    19. Aug, 2010

    Well, Jamie, we can see above that it was the ClimbingNarc that said climbers need to police themselves; I agree, but I believe he meant individuals need to police themselves, and that’s what I mean, too. I think your question is pretty far out of context. We’re talking about a boulder in Font, here, and real people (on this public site, unfortunately, demonstrating in my eyes a lesser concern for the facts and a greater one for the spin and the win of an argument. Yuck.).
    There’s a pretty big difference between policing oneself and offering oneself up for judgement to anonymous internet crowd to be picked away at by carrion. Just above, we have some pretty heavy-duty opinions flying around regarding the start of a boulder problem that has piles of footage illustrating the point in question. What, then, is good enough?
    Make bouldering like golf? Every session with a judge’s panel and camera crew? Perhaps that’s how some like it; some people just need to be there, to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Even if it’s an ugly, minor, uncreative, and critical role.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5ik3yHjP2I&feature=related

    I think recent discussions on this site and others show what happens to those who stick their necks out and offer up their opinions to an uniformed mob. What is the line between hero and target? The spin, it seems. I agree with “eb” that it looks like some sponsors (and all forms of media, it seems) “seem to care more about the image and charisma (hence his reputation) of the climber”.
    Not one for anyone to guess at wildly. Especially those with no frame of reference. If you’ve NEVER climbed with a climber (or on an particular climb), for example, how could you judge them/it? Accurately, I mean… ;D Never stops some folks from trying..
    Guess I really have to stop reading the comments.. They’re all the same, for the same reasons, on every site. One thread on a Font site goes from Kheops assis to schoolteachers inside of some two comments, never getting to the point regarding the boulder!
    I certainly learned something in the last day or so in trying to defend my friends and others that I respect, as well as myself. On the internet, though, it’s all too much to keep up with, and too easy to get offended by the uninformed. Someone even attacked Paul Robinson recently on your site for defending and explaining himself! Some people seek out contention for attention.
    It all really makes me think “the posting of uncut footage” would make no difference to some people. Unless you’re talking about pornography; that might make a difference to some..

    Thanks for the Lincoln Lake updates; they help me find great boulders. I appreciate the informative aspects of climbing websites.

    I think the vinyl may be skipping again. Anyone wanna talk about stash pads now? Front Range inside jokes? Maybe just poke the fire and speculate?

    It’s a new day, and I’m going climbing. Without a camera. Or maybe with.

  33. B3

    19. Aug, 2010

    @Chris
    @Chris
    There is nothing I can say or do to “spin” uncut footage, that’s why I’d like to see it.
    I am very interested in your response to the following questions.
    1. How do you think climbers should police themselves?
    2. Is it important that professional climbers should provide footage of their ascents, particularly when no one sees them climb?
    3. Do you think it is important to question ascents that seems questionable?

  34. eb

    19. Aug, 2010

    Chris, I see your point and I respect your curiosity to understand the bouldering in Font (and everywhere else). And I appreciate the discussion.

    About the video you posted, mention it to Antoine when you see him. I think I know what he will tell you about it..

    have you seen the sit start move in that vid? Personally I haven’t – at the earliest point (around 0:43 in) I can see on this montage from Olivier, Antoine is about 2 feet off the ground. About the same than on the pics on bleau.info.
    But now I can see where the potential misunderstanding may come from..
    Perhaps uncut footages are the solution indeed… 😉

    I’ll just explain a bit more why, for me, Dave Ty and you didn’t do Kheops assis (I actually was wrong in generalising to all repeaters as I don’t know for Michele and Thomas Willenberg). The issue is not as much really the starting holds than (proper) sit starts.

    I climbed a fair bit in the US and I have almost never seen anybody doing a sit start sitting on the floor but always from a pad. Fine, that is the standard (ie ethic) there.

    In Font, however, as you probably know, a sit start is happening from the ground (a carpet is tolerated), likely because people were doing sit starts before the invention of crashpads. People there seem less obnoxious about T-shirt dabbing than in the US, however.
    So in Font (and most other places in France) a sit start is when the climber is sitting on the floor, grab the holds, put his feet on the rock and then pull and do the first move. Not sitting on the right foot as Dave did (21:04 in, The Island) or perhaps on a pad as you did (8:20 in, http://www.deadpointmag.com/videos/watch/circuit-font I am not sure on what you are sitting on as the vid doesn’t show it, but it seem to me it is a bit high to be the ground) and or even standing and just lowering a bit on one foot as Ty did (53:48 in, Between the trees). Actually, for me, Ty didn’t do either Gecko assis 8B+ (51:20, in) and nor did he do Satan I Helvete assis 8C (56:20 in), where in both case he started standing on one foot.
    Perhaps to do proper sit starts on those problems one needs to start at lower holds??

    If you guys consider you actually did properly those problems fine with me but you will not change my opinion, sorry.
    But I don’t see why you don’t call it ‘Kheops bas’ (ie low) (as for Fata Morgana that has an ‘assis’ (8B, unrepeated) and a ‘bas’, 8A+)? Which is quite an achievement anyhow.

    Sebastien Frigault, who did a couple of hard sends in the forest, could not repeat (so far) Kheops assis because he cannot do a proper sit start on it. Even though I guess one can say he can do hard sit starts…

    no hard feelings either. If I’m wrong on your start on Kheops assis, I’ll apologise and will take back what I said.

  35. chris schulte

    20. Aug, 2010

    whew.. this is turning into work!

    jamie:
    1) never claimed you to do the spinning, hey? symptom of media.
    2) i think my position is pretty clear above regarding all items. i see the point you are trying to make.. but… really, what satisfies? footage? reputable witnesses? what constitutes a reputable witness? are significant others/spouses out? friends and family of the climber? you alone? you’ve made it clear that video satisfies you, but who climbs for you, and what gives you the power to judge, other than some threat of defamation? as think i implied above, many folks don’t carry a camera and a posse all the time, but again, i see your point. maybe some time in the future this will be a standard for sponsor/athlete relations and pro climbers will be payed/rewarded on the basis of firm, obvious accomplishments on video. this would probably be simpler and more equitable for everyone involved in the industry, as well as fair and validating to the professional climber. dunno how this will work for alpine climbing, though..

    but, i don’t think anyone owes anything to just another individual…

    I wanna believe mallory and chum died on the descent from the summit, bonatti climbed cerro torre, fernandez did chilam balam, and rouhling climbed akira….. and paul DID lucid dreaming.

    eb: i don’t believe that Seb can’t do a one-arm pullup on the starting right hand pocket, but no apology is needed. i don’t think we can work this out, but i think…
    we’ll be okay.

    think i’m done with this…

  36. B3

    20. Aug, 2010

    Chris,

    You said climbers must police themselves.

    1) How do you think climbers should police themselves?

    It’s not hard to go climbing with other reputable climbers around. Daniel, Dave, Carlo, Sander, Glassberg, Jaeger, Capps, Payne etc etc etc, There are any number of them in the Front Range. Climbing alone immediately begs the question.
    When I was in the South, a friend of mine, who heard that Angie had climbed Millipede responded with “Bull@#$! Who saw it?” My response was to show him the uncut footage. End of story.
    Another great example is Carlo Traversi’s ascent of Aslan. Put the pad down, set the camera on a tripod, and climb a V14. I was very impressed and it speaks highly of Carlo’s commitment to integrity. Here is the link if you haven’t seen it. http://vimeo.com/13072321
    There is one thing that would immediately and unquestionably erase doubt of any of the ascents you listed and that is uncut video footage. There is no need to have any doubt around any accomplishments in climbing anymore with the ease of having a camera these days. Liars and lying have long been a part of climbing culture (or at least questionable ascents), as you note, and I think with access to today’s technology, there is no reason why we can’t put an end to this. I would hope that the standard for the future is that if an athlete wants to be professional, showing the climbing community their ability is one small part of that professionalism. I and many others I know would love to see it.

  37. BigA

    20. Aug, 2010

    Jamie, I respect you and your climbing, but I agree with what Tom said above. You guys have a sad state of affairs. If climbing alone begs doubt, then call out Holloway and Bob Murray. And Sherman while you are at it.
    Chris, the east would love to have you and if you end up sending any testpieces, providing video footage will not be required.
    And Jamie, if you come out to visit again, nobody will top out your send and unnecessarily downgrade the hell out of it.

    I feel an “emergency blog post” coming on

  38. sock hands

    20. Aug, 2010

    i still do not believe that ANYONE has done anger management or canopener before the break (footage in solutions of lemaire was totally doctored by using a replica that bennett made out of used chewing gum and grey spray paint and put on a horizontal axis in a fort collins basement and will simply crawled across it… took many months to get it just right and at least 50,000 beers).

    actually, i do not believe that anyone has done anything… therefore, I AM THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED CLIMBER IN THE UNIVERSE.

    CLIMBING COMPANIES: STOP BEING STUPID! SHOWER ME WITH GIFTS AND NON-CONSECUTIVE, UNMARKED CURRENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SEND AN INTERN TO CHANGE MY KID’S DIAPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  39. Anon

    21. Aug, 2010

    So, if someone is not climbing with one of the above named “police” boulderers, then all their hard work doesn’t count? What happens when they move on to other things? Are they still the police? Or do we set up a deputy system? What about the former police, now retired? Or those that have been climbing longer then any of the police mentioned above? Is their opinion no good? Lame. No wonder the Frontrange scene sucks. I’ve been bouldering here longer then any of them, and most likely will be bouldering here after they move on. I don’t climb with any of them (but I do know them and they know me) because I don’t like a) dogs, b) crowds, c) late starts, d) and pre-defined beta. That pretty much limits most of them.

    Professionalism means much more then having uncut video footage of your latest conquest. It means following the environmental ethics (not letting your dog off leash at Evans, Wolverine, or Eldo, not stashing your pad, not leaving top ropes, etc.), representing the sport (more then just stuffing the internet with ego-based video clips), respecting your community members and professionals (instead of instantly slamming them at a CATs session). A professional does not need to SHOW their ability, it is obvious by their professionalism.

  40. CH

    21. Aug, 2010

    “Climbing alone immediately begs the question.”

    Remember when climbing used to be fun?

  41. Anthony

    22. Aug, 2010

    After reading all this I feel like I’m on CRAZY PILLS!!!!! HA HA Climbers are CRAZY!

  42. k

    22. Aug, 2010

    Can’t we just have honesty?

  43. campusman

    25. Aug, 2010

    its not about honesty its about trust now

  44. campusman

    25. Aug, 2010

    and i wanna say sorry for lyin to u about ascents..remember to respect others and to not climb for others because they are not climbing for you.

  45. campusman

    25. Aug, 2010

    nevermind, i just wanna say i love climbing also and so thats only if you love climbing. lol

  46. cardboard_dog

    30. Aug, 2010

    This thread is a prime example of why H8Spray.spew should do the climbing community a service and just shut the F down. ONLY GUMBYS and your competition care about what you climbed. Anyone who actually cares or counts will most likely hear it from you when they ASK you.

Leave a Reply