Alpine Bouldering Guide

Posted on 07. Dec, 2009 by B3 in News

Well the snow has come to Boulder and it looks like everyone will be climbing indoors for a while. I have been setting with an awesome crew at Movement and it has been great fun and there are some really cool problems in there right now. The biggest news as of late is that I have been in contact with Sharp End Publishing and am in the process of writing a guidebook to the alpine bouldering in Rocky Mountain National Park and Mt. Evans. Sharp End just published a wonderful guidebook to Eldorado Canyon. I am working with proprietor Fred Knapp, and we have agreed that a guide with out the full support of the rangers and is not worth doing. My hope is that the guide will be representative of the community, will help access, and will provide accurate information. I am making every attempt to be as thorough as possible and I want this to be something the community will stand behind. This came about as many of my fellow climbers approached me, asking me to take the lead on this. The other climbers I have talked to or been in contact with have been very supportive and encouraging, including David Graham, Daniel Woods, Paul Robinson, Brian Capps, Herman Fiessner, Justin Jaeger, Angie Payne, Luke Parady, Ryan Olson, Wade David (who will be providing photos for the project), Jason Pinto, Brian Camp, Andre Difelice, Blake Rutherford, Chad Greedy, Paul Otis. The list goes on. I look forward to being in touch with many of you this winter.

52 Responses to “Alpine Bouldering Guide”

chuffer

07. Dec, 2009

Good on ya Jamie. Hope it goes smoothly!
wyclimber

07. Dec, 2009

With you at the helm, I look forward to an accurate and well researched book.
Sam

07. Dec, 2009

Jamie,

Think about the bigger picture here. More press leads to more destruction. Anyone can really find these places if they want. They are all over the web. Someone in China could find the Dali boulder in two minutes, so it can’t be about lack of knowledge. Local knowledge suffices, and it is just reaching them before they go up there that matters, in terms of the best way to respect such fragile land. In an era where almost all of the valleys are being filled with second homes, let’s keep the dark canyons and remote valleys as quiet as possible…for the area’s sake. Who really wins in this situation? Certainly not the area. Perhaps a free online guide to a few areas. Sorry I am so negative, as I like your blog a lot, but I got to disagree with you heavily on this one. Having popular support for the guide should not push you one way or the other…many serious mistakes are made in history with popular support. You wanna do the hip thing and think progressively and really support the beautiful areas Co has to offer, then find a way to keep the publishing world out of it, which, of course, has absolutely no concern for the land. Yes, everyone has a right to visit these areas and to know about them, but a guidebook is not the solution. People do not study the ethical guidlines and suggestions that are often soo important to the author in the beginning of the book.
thanks man
Sam
B3

07. Dec, 2009

Sam, I appreciate your feedback and the reason why I still think it is ok follows. A guidebook with somewhat accurate directions to the place (but terrible directions to the problems themselves) has already been in print for more than a year. My guidebook would serve to correct those errors.
As well, there is in online guide at http://www.mountainproject.com http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado/alpine_rock/rmnp__rock/106286416.
Anyone that logs into 8A knows The Park and Evans dominate the headlines all summer and both areas were included in Dosage 5. In addition to my site, Peter Beals site, Jon Glassbergs, Carlo Traversis, Phils Schaals,.Ryan Olsons, Deadpoint mag, have all talked extensively about the area, so the publishing world (or at least the mainstream media outlets) has hardly been kept out of it.
Fred and I are in the process of scheduling meetings with the rangers at both the Park and Evans and will not move forward until they are excited about the guidebook. It’s our vision that we can use the book as a tool to promote the way to best take care of the area. This will happen by letting the rangers have a section(I would recommend checking out The Eldorado Guide) in which they lay out their vision and code of conduct for bouldering in the wilderness.
Additionally, we can suggest the best ethic for climbers to use, which has been done on mountainproject.com, but I think will be more effective in print. So far both ranger groups seem to think the book is a positive thing, and that it can be used to give the boulderers some direction, as it seems the rangers feel they need it and they have almost none. I disagree with the statement “people do not study eithical guidelines and suggestions…of the book” I think they do in the case of Hueco (when I hear climbers recite, verbatim, passages from Matt WIlder’s introduction) and I think if this book clearly comes from the community of climbers who made the area then those who follow will pay attention.
If the rangers feel it is good thing (and think it could actually help access) and the climbers and developers of the area think it is a good thing, I don’t have a problem with it.
peter b

07. Dec, 2009

Jamie,
You might want to address previous remarks you have made about free online guides, tours, etc in preference to published sources. Obviously I am not against a guide being published. That would be hypocritical of me. However you might want to justify more clearly why a published version of this info is desirable as opposed to the previous stance you had.

Best,
Peter
peter b

07. Dec, 2009

“Secondly, we can suggest the best ethic for climbers to use, that doesn’t exist as of know. So far both ranger groups seem to think the book is a positive thing, and that it can be used to give the boulderers some direction, as it seems they need it and they have almost none.”

I would also add that my mountainproject.com material has extensive descriptions of appropriate visitor conduct and climbing practices.
B3

07. Dec, 2009

@Peter I am not sure what you are referring to. I have never been opposed to the idea of a guidebook, just Horan’s pile of misinformation. If you had some evidence to back up you argument it would be easier to addess, but here is an excerpt from the massive letter I wrote to Falcon Guides when their guidebook was published

“My desire to have a guidebook filled with accurate information is a pretty basic one. I think that everyone that uses a guide book or map or any other type of informative resource does so with the understanding the that the information is accurate! Time and again I have tried to put the emphasis on the climbing community as a user group. I don’t have a problem with an accurate guidebook that has the blessing of the the community and the support of the organizations that manage the land. This book fails miserably in doing that. I again encourage everyone to check out the guidebook and see for yourself. The scope of the errors will stand out immediately. I do not endorse this book and I stand by my statement that it is a waste of time and money. I will happily give anyone free beta for any problem in the state.
Jamie”
I don’t think I have changed my stance on this.
B3

07. Dec, 2009

Peter, you are correct about the fact that you have included information about that. I will correct.
peter b

07. Dec, 2009

Thanks Jamie,
I will defer to you on this. My response was based upon a general impression and I will not try to scroll through a bunch of blog posts to justify my earlier statement. However other climbers may view this book idea with less forbearance. Again I support the project.

Peter
B3

07. Dec, 2009

Thanks Peter, I expect resistance, and although most everyone that I know that climbs in the Park on a regular basis knows about this already, I have received almost none.
DP

07. Dec, 2009

Don’t forget to include some moderates for us mere mortals! There is this mentality that if you can’t climb v7 there isn’t any point in going to Chaos – this is not true! Help Jaime Emerson!
Owen

07. Dec, 2009

Jamie,

This is fantastic. I’m continually impressed with your efforts in the climbing community and I look forward to seeing the finished product.

-Owen
B3

07. Dec, 2009

Owen, thank you! Your comment is much appreciated. Jamie
Crafty

07. Dec, 2009

DP,

While anyone and everyone is welcome to climb in Chaos Canyon, and there are certainly climbs of all grades, the lion’s share seems to fall in the V9 and up range, especially as far as bigger, prouder lines are concerned. Maybe I’ve just not been shown the right stuff, but when climbing in Chaos with climbers looking for V3-v5 problems, I’ve had quite a bit of difficulty finding truly proud stuff for folks to try. Just my impression but I think Jamie will agree with me.

Evans, on the other hand, seems to have some truly great lines in the V7 and under range. (Timeline comes to mind).
Andy Mann

07. Dec, 2009

Jamie, sweet news. I know you’ll do a great job. Let me know if there is anyway I can help, or lend a lens to the project. And agreed, don’t leave out the classic moderates. Cheers!
martin

07. Dec, 2009

I’ve known plenty of new or traveling climbers to come to the park and trample all over off trail in search of classic problems in the park and evans. A well done guide book in the hands of new visitors will help to eliminate destruction of the delicate plant life in these areas from people who have no idea where they are going. I can only think of one or two other people who are capable of this project other than you Jamie so press on.
Andrew

08. Dec, 2009

Excited to see that guide to our state’s best climbing is being made by an author with real knowledge of the climbing areas. Colorado has needed this for awhile.

As for access, or more traffic… I see it as a non issue, I have had people just follow me to both areas, since I was a member of the pad people. Secondly, mountainproject, already has enough information online for people to get to the general climbing areas.

Good luck.
Pat

08. Dec, 2009

Mr. Emerson

We’ve never met, but I am routinely impressed by the quality of your blog, and the subject matter you discuss. I am sure that this guidebook will be written in an extremely professional way. I hope that future users can enjoy these areas as much as I have.

It is, nonetheless, unfortunate that a guidebook seems necessary for these areas, as the element of exploration and solitude are key to their uniqueness. Furthermore, where will the proceeds generated by this book go? It would seem reasonable that at least part of them should go to protecting these sensitive areas, and promoting proper access and behavior.

Pat
kevin murphy

08. Dec, 2009

Good luck man, can’t wait to see it. I’m sure you’ll do a great job. Speaking of the Eldo guide. I know Steve put in ALOT of effort trying to climb almost every line, in his ability, or get input from those who have climbed them.. The grades are pretty close to right on. I know its a daunting task, but a pretty dam fun one, and it makes for accountability. Your a great candidate for this job. Your hired. OOpps, you’ve already been hired Historic info. is always fun to read.

Cheers,

Kevin
glclimber

08. Dec, 2009

Jamie:
As a former ranger at mount rainier at only visiting the park a couple times, I find Sams comments closer to the truth. I spent 90% explaining/arguing w/ visitors to “not pick the wilflowers” and “the meadows are fragile ecosystemsts within themselves”. If the rangers in are in favor of theguidebook, more power to you, but devoting a section to the rangers is different that receiving their acceptance.

I know im the @sshhole here being an ex-ranger and only a lowly glclimber, but on my 2 trips to boulder in the park I heard “F… the rangers”, and “Ill stash my pads where I want” and even comments about physical violence…this is only what I heard and its been 2 years since my last visit. National Parks are for everyone to use, they are also the ONLY places left that represent true preservation of the land, a very different goal than the forest service. Everyone needs to respect the land and I guess I didnt see that on my 2 visits, but you would know that I the pulse of rocky.

I didnt have a guide, just a couple buddies who pointed things out and it was great times. The park is for everyone including future generations and this needs to be the top goal. Just my 2 cents and if the rangers support the guide and encourage it, then that it is all any climber/park lover could ask for.
B3

08. Dec, 2009

@murohy thanks man, much appreciate the kind words
@pat There are so many people coming to the Park and Mt. Evans that I, and many others, feel that a well written guide can help offset the impact by directing people to the correct areas. As of now, impact is scattered and I think this hurts the area. This is no longer (and never really was) some hidden valley up in the mountains. Let’s not forget that Lake Haiyaha is only about 1.8 miles (40 minute hike) from Bear Lake Parking Area, which probably receives literally 1 million visitors a year.
I don’t know that there is any way that any profit made from the book could be donated to an organization set up to protect Chaos Canyon. It would either go to the Access Fund, and that would get passed on elsewhere, or it would go to the Park, and again passed on anywhere. The amount of work that has gone in and will go in to making this guide is staggering when compared to the amount of money I may get. This is being done, much as my website is, from a labor of love.
B3

08. Dec, 2009

steven as I said before, this guide will not happen with out the approval of the rangers. the scene has changed quite a bit since you were last here and I, along with nearly every one else who spends time in the Park, feels the time has come.
Kevin Jorgeson

08. Dec, 2009

Bouldering has an enormous environmental impact.

As our numbers increase, so must our responsibility to the places that bare the weight of our passion for climbing.

Just as large numbers of users can negatively impact these locations, they can also maintain, restore and protect them.

This can only happen if we act coherently, collaboratively, and collectively.

I would assert that three basic ethical principals are (or should become) core values of our community.

1. Leave nothing behind. Nothing.
2. Put place before self.
3. Make sacrifice to undo damage.

These three principles require a high level sense of community and demand a concentrated discipline in our interaction with the natural world.

Entitlement. The sense of “someone else will carry it,” “its not my problem,” or “later,” is a scourge which will destroy the very places we claim to love.

I see this guide as an opportunity to call on our fellow climbers to place principles before personality, responsibility before convenience, expense before selfishness.

If we follow these basic principles of respect for nature and one another, we will maximize our enjoyment of the natural gift we have made a commitment to preserve.

Nature will only carry us if we do everything within our power to reduce the burden we place upon it.
glclimber

08. Dec, 2009

Good to hear the scene has changed. If the rangers support the notion, and honestly they are the keepers of the grail, then the guide is a great idea….props for seeking their support and hopefully getting it.
B3

08. Dec, 2009

@Kevin thanks for your support. I appreciate it! Nice chatting with you earlier. Hope all is well man.
Timpson

08. Dec, 2009

Jamie,

At the risk of sounding, and being, reduntant in my support; I feel that ambassadors in each climbing community need to be thanked and shown proper respect for their efforts to preserve climbing communties and their resources. So thanks Jamie, we’re lucky to have your input and your effort. I fully support the book, and see it in a completely positive light. Information may be available on other websites directing climbers to areas and problems, however even though it is nearly 2010, not all climbers have access to said websites. There has to be a way to educate ALL climbers visiting these areas, not 50% or 80% of the climbing population, and a guidebook will help fill in the gaps for people who don’t get the information from other sources, i.e. the internet. The regulars who comment on this site certainly are intelligent, conscious, thoughtful, and articulate. This website, the topics addressed, and the discussions which occur here are an asset to our community. We all deserve credit and thanks for rising up together to support a healthy climbing community, and thank you for providing one of the forums for us to so.
Thomas

08. Dec, 2009

I think its great Jamie. I’m sure a lot of people would love to limit the number of people who know about Evans/RMNP but the cats already out of the bag. Nobody is going to make the decision to go our not go to either of these areas based upon the availability of a guidebook. More likely, it will provide them with the correct info that can ease access concerns.

My only hope, and the first request that the Evans rangers will make, is you take a very strong stance against pad stashing as this seems to be the biggest access issue at either of these areas. The whole “don’t ask, don’t tell” system has some serious issues. All the little bits of foam that are already up there will continue to accumulate will never biodegrade or go away. The immaturity and threats of violence that were mentioned above are ridiculous and make boulders look like self absorbed douche bags.

Big props to Kevin’s comments around entitlement as you rarely hear a strong boulder being vocal about such issues. If you want to go climbing at a place with a long hike, you’ll have to carry all your stuff in and out. If you need more pads, bring some friends along. If it is too much to handle, go to Flagstaff.
B3

08. Dec, 2009

thank You, thank you, thank you!
puntx

08. Dec, 2009

Maybe someone with real V15 climbing skillz should write the guide???
Andy

08. Dec, 2009

Yes! Thank you and I hope you are successful as this is something that is desperately needed.

I am always surprised at how crappy/outdated the guidebooks are in Colorado considering the huge amount of climbing available here. It seems that trend is starting to change.
Nietzsche

08. Dec, 2009

I understand that RMNP and Mt Evans are large tasks, but what about Guanella Pass? Or even Indian Peaks? Will the RMNP section include Lumpy Ridge (which is part of RMNP) or focus on Chaos (and I presume) Emerald? What about outlying areas at RMNP or Evans?

Do you think that including outlying areas which are less popular (e.g. the Aerials at Evans or Upper Upper at RMNP) will help or hurt access? It seems that the “damage” most people speak of are located at the main areas (Upper/Lower Chaos, Emerald and Areas A/B). Wouldn’t this seem to entail that the project should only cover these areas given the stipulations you’ve made? (1: accuracy [these outlying areas are either impossible to reach from the Horan guide or are left out entirely] 2: access [a guide to these outlying areas would seem to jeopardize access by increase travel and exploration]).
TommY caldwell

08. Dec, 2009

Doood all these people are @### … make the book, and pave the park so skaters can have fun too … #@$ it !!!
B3

08. Dec, 2009

@Nietzsche As far as I know, there are a couple new books coming out, both of which are written by Phillip Benningfield and will focus on the Front Range. I think that Guanella Pass will be covered in that edition as well as Lumpy Ridge. Phillip B is also writing a West Slope Guide and I think the hope is that perhaps all three would go together to cover the entire state. We will discuss which areas will be covered at Mt. Evans and it seems from preliminary talks, due to impact concerns that areas like the Aerials will be left out.
Cooper

09. Dec, 2009

“There are so many people coming to the Park and Mt. Evans that I, and many others, feel that a well written guide can help offset the impact by directing people to the correct areas. As of now, impact is scattered and I think this hurts the area.” -Jamie Emerson

Jamie,
A guidebook will attract a greater number of climbers to these sensitive areas. A greater number of climbers has the potential to have a greater impact on the area. Perhaps a guidebook is not the best solution to reduce impact at Chaos Canyon and Mt. Evans. Have you considered the option of building a better trail system to get between areas and boulders? A well marked trail complete with rock stacks could reduce “scattered impact” without increasing the number of climbers.

I visited Chaos Canyon in the summers of 2007 and 2009. I noted that there is a visible impact on a good portion of Chaos Canyon. I saw more vegetation trampled, trees destroyed, and trash than most areas that I climb at in Northern Arizona and Central Texas. I can’t remember the last time I saw a piece of trash at a climbing area in Northern Arizona(with the exception of Priest Draw thanks to the weekend warriors from Phoenix). An example of this destruction would be the Autobot boulder and the surrounding area. It was quite depressing to hike up into the mountains to find a bunch of trash left underneath this boulder and vegetation destroyed in the surrounding area. Increasing the hordes of climbers will not necessarily help to lessen the impact, especially since it seems like most climbers are there to send a V12, 8B, or some other irrelevant number.

You might also want to consider the possibility that a guidebook will fuel or restart the controversy concerning pad stashing. In 2007 it seemed as though there was quite a bit of tension, including threats of violence, between climbers who were either for or against pad stashing. This took away from the climbing experience. This previous summer when I visited the high country it seemed as though most people had moved on and left this issue alone.

John Cooper
B3

09. Dec, 2009

John, I appreciate your comments, but again, as the majority of people who climb in the Park want a guide book, (and if the rangers are supportive) I don’t see what the issue is. There are hundreds of climbers who visit the Park and as of now, with no guidebook, you have seen the damage that has been done. It is my hope that for the first time there will be a way to prevent more damage and put people on the right track. Clearly, the majority of the people bouldering in Colorado support the endeavor, and fundamentally this is about giving back to the community. I do my best to keep in touch with most of the major players in the Front Range on a regular basis and I have been very open about letting those people give their opinion about the book. Only one local that I can think of out of perhaps 50 has given me less than 100% support and we had a very productive discussion about it. I think that the guidebook will not exacerbate the issues with pad stashing (this is evidenced by the fact that most of the people that live in Colorado and call these areas their home are the ones who not only lived through the pad stashing controversy but now feel a guidebook would be appropriate) and that the book will in fact help any access situations, an idea it seems the rangers at Mt. Evans at least are very supportive of.
“A guidebook will attract a greater number of climbers to these sensitive areas” Don’t forget that a guide to the area already exists, was sold online and in REI, and we saw less people this year than in years past, which is contrary to your argument.
In regards to the areas you mention, having a guidebook to the Park is different in the following ways. They are not in a national park that sees more than 3 million visitors a year, they have never been featured in a Dosage movie, the strongest climbers in the country don’t live an hour away (putting up V14s and V15s) and then use these ascents to earn a living by being pictured on full page adverts., being on 8a etc etc. Europeans are not visiting the areas you mention in the numbers they are visiting the Park and Evans. As far as I know there is little online information about the areas you mention and no guidebook has ever been sold to either place. I think you are comparing apples to oranges, and each bouldering area is a separate entity and should be dealt with as such.
I think that everyone has the right to visit and climb in the Park if they chose. This is not about keeping the place a secret, it is about sharing the place we all love to boulder.
nebc

09. Dec, 2009

http://www.sharpendbooks.com/images/covers/fism.jpg

Jason Haas, a climber out of Grand Ledge wrote a guidebook to the flatirons.
Cooper

09. Dec, 2009

Jamie,
I do acknowledge the differences between these areas, but I never said anything about keeping areas secret. There is a guidebook to the climbing in Central Texas called Texas Limestone Bouldering by Jeff Jackson, that has been in print for a few years. As for Northern Arizona, do a simple search on a few climbing websites, and you can find directions to more than a dozen areas online.

I assume that at least part of the goal of this project is to lessen impact in these areas, which is the primary reason that I am bringing up these issues. I’m not concerned with the existence of a guidebook. I’m concerned about the impact that a guidebook can bring to an area. A guidebook can definitely make people more aware of the need to minimize impact in an area, but it may not be the most effective means by itself. An accurate guidebook along with a well marked trail system may be a better option to lessen the impact. Consider marking and improving trails in addition to the guidebook as a part of your project.
Francis Sanzaro

09. Dec, 2009

Jamie,

This is a fine discussion, and I give you much respect for fielding it and responding to comments. It is very much the issue of modern bouldering–with increasing numbers, increased impact means more access problems. We all agree on attempting to keep the areas clean and pure. One of the problems–one of the big unknowns in this discussion–is how we think guidebooks are used by boulderers. I don’t know this for sure, but what I imagine rangers are thinking is that guidebooks would function like a camping or hiking book, which are used by a certain clientele that does indeed follow the restrictions and warnings made in the book. One can’t deny that the serious backpacker and the average boulderer (often times raised in the gym these days–many come to CO from the midwest and don’t have the same respect for the land as CO climbers) have a major difference in environmental ethics. Boulders smoke, bring dogs, cut trails, sit on mossy rocks during thunder storms, bring radios, drop chalk, crush flowers, etc.–often all in the same day and with little thought. I am guilty of some of these, though I do my absolute best to mitigate it. Yes, we need more education, but the crux is where to intercept people in their daily lives to get the education across? My main point is that there is a disconnect between wilderness guides and bouldering guides, and that the rangers think that more bureaucratic management (in the form of more information) will be the solution. That being said, one should try to feel out exactly how the rangers think a guidebook will function. Only then is their support or non-support really valid. What if the real issue is that we have the save the areas from the rangers? I’m thinking, perhaps unwisely, of Edward Abbey’s rant in Desert Solitaire and how in the midst of trying to protect Arches national park from degredation, they paved roads, built a lodge, installed showers and rv hook-ups.

Best of luck Jamie.

Francis
B3

09. Dec, 2009

@Francis, thank you, I agree and I think things will become more clear once we sit down with the rangers. You introduce a whole other topic, and that is the difference between the way land is managed in the US. I love Abbey’s writing, but would Arches be better off in Europe, where people would be living in houses amongst the stone gardens? Or would the resource be better protected? Is it ok to sacrifice a paved road and some tv hook ups for Wendy’s, McDonalds and WalMart? In writing this guidebook, in no way am I attempting to tackle such issues, but they are very interesting and I appreciate you bringing them up. I could talk for hours about this topic but it is far beyond the scope of a response on my little blog. But thanks Francis, its been a while, hope you are well!
Colorado climber

10. Dec, 2009

Why not put it all online at MountainProject? That way you could make it as accurate as you want, plus have status updates on problems, broken holds, closed areas, trail development, etc. That would seem to build community more and allow for important information to be disseminated at a rapid speed. A guide book is good for only so long, then it sorta goes out-of-date. If it were online, then you could put up a big post telling everyone to stop using the social trail at the bottom of Chaos, or the new ones developing in Upper.

“I’m thinking, perhaps unwisely, of Edward Abbey’s rant in Desert Solitaire and how in the midst of trying to protect Arches national park from degredation, they paved roads, built a lodge, installed showers and rv hook-ups.” – Francis

This is a good point, and one that must be considered very carefully. Every climber I have encountered with a guidebook uses it to get from “big name problem” to “big name problem”. Even when it clearly states in big bold letters to respect the enviro (like in C. Bouldering I and II), I don’t see climbers reading that section. Rather, they seem hellbent on pulling up plants, “landscaping” the landing, chillen with friends and finding the fastest way to the next “big name problem”. Pad stashing may not be as big of a problem as it was in 2007 and earlier (although I got another pad this year thanks to someone), but what about the stashed ropes (for toproping the highballs), all the tape, landscaping, and general environmental destruction? I don’t know how to address this in any meaningful way in a guidebook. You can put it at the beginning like most do, but I don’t think that will make any difference.

A guide is inevitable, and I’m glad you are doing it. But I think claiming that it will help the environment is misleading. Out of the 18 years that I have been climbing, I’ve yet to see a guidebook that had a positive impact on an area (in terms of the environment). They bring a lot of benefits for the writer, and for those trying to fill in their 8a card, but beyond that I have yet to see it. Perhaps this will be the first, and if anyone is up to the challenge it is you. How to do it remains a mystery. Personally, I still vote for a web-based guide as it allows for much more in terms of community, accuracy, and bringing important issues to climbers attention.
B3

11. Dec, 2009

I’ll try to address all of your issues.
There will be an updatable online form of the guide (which I haven’t discussed on this site yet) that will go with the hard copy. So this way you will have both, which is a benefit over having just the one. You will be able to print out the sections you need for the day if you want to leave the book at home.

Again, a guide book has already been written (filled with mistakes), and part of the reason I am writing this is to correct those mistakes. I see that as one benefit. I think it is an exaggeration to say that big name climbers are “hellbent on pulling up plants”.
As of now there is nothing written for the climbers, by the climbers (or by the rangers) that specifically dictates or suggests any kind of behavior in the park or evans. Perhaps i mispoke, but what I am trying to say is that people are not going to stop coming to the area. It is THE summer bouldering destination in America and if this is going to be the case, then I think a guidebook could help lessen the impact by getting people to the right place efficiently. I also see this as a benefit.
I would argue that the guide to Hueco has had a posttive effect on the area, and Hueco Tanks has seen an awesome turnaround environmentally from not only a new guidebook but more park involvement from the heavy destruction that occured when the place was a free-for-all.
I appreciate your thoughts and they are well thought out.
campusman

11. Dec, 2009

The Sunspot is hard!!!!!!!!!!
chuffer

11. Dec, 2009

2 cents about Evans …

I’ve thought about this over the last week and it seems to me a responsible guide to the areas around Mt. Evans has to unfortunately leave certain areas out due to the sensitivity of the landscape (alpine tundra) and wildlife (calfing goats), their remoteness, the lack of parking and any managed trail system and the responsibility of the Forest Service to manage these areas as wilderness in perpetuity for all Americans. In some places, the land simply will not be able to sustain the impacts from additional climbers due to lack of an existing trail system of any kind in the area and the sensitivity of the terrain one must travel over to get there. This doesn’t mean we can’t go there, but in my opinion there should not be a bouldering guide for these areas.

What areas? Places that come to mind include Area E, The Aerials, The Winds, HH and everything on the hillside above Lincoln Lake although including the stuff at the lake is a slippery slope. I was tempted to include Area D in the above list, but to be honest, the notoriety of the problems there and their inclusion in Bouldering Colorado would make Area D’s omission irresponsible. In contrast, Area D is the one area at Evans where it may be possible for a WELL LAID OUT and WELL THOUGHT OUT guide to actually provide immediate benefits to the terrain surrounding the boulders provided boulderers stricly adhere to precise approach instructions and strict wilderness ethics. The question is can we and will we?

If you indicate to the rangers that you’ve already ruled out a number of known and developed bouldering areas from inclusion (indicating their general locations) due to concerns over increased users, lack of an existing trail framework and the sensitivity of these areas, I suspect you may gain some credibility with the rangers right off the bat.

Assuming you can get the rangers on board for their inclusion, I would propose that the following areas are a good starting point for negotiations with the rangers:
Chicago Creek Campground
The Switchbacks
The Roadside Blocks
The Reservoir Boulders
Area A
Area B
Area C
Area D
Stuff on the other side of Mount Evans, Bierstadt and the Sawtooth Ridge accessed from Guannella Pass should provide other at least a few other areas for inclusion.

As you know, essentially all of Evans Area A is online for free right now at mountainproject. All of the classics and almost all of the not-so-classics are there. Most of the FA info is there, although there are a few glaring omissions and brainfarts on those details. However, mountainproject is an unwieldy format that lacks the good overhead topos of social trails and the like that a guidebook could provide. Similarly, there are no stories and almost no background info on mountainproject, subjects that are better left to a guidebook anyway. I look forward to reading yours and others impressions and history of the area. Although I did not start the Evans guide on mountainproject, I have put the last 60 or so Area A problems in the database, as I was not going to let it turn into a bastion of misinformation like Bouldering Colorado and because I had the impression a real guidebook to Evans was just a pipedream.

Good luck with this project … chipper
peter b

11. Dec, 2009

“As of now there is nothing written for the climbers, by the climbers (or by the rangers) that specifically dictates or suggests any kind of behavior in the park or evans.”

Jamie, at the risk of sounding repetitive on the point of addressing climber behavior, here is the text from the Mountain Project description for Chaos Canyon. Feel free to borrow it for the guide.

http://mountainproject.com/v/colorado/alpine_rock/rmnp__rock/106286420

“This is a fragile alpine bouldering area and following Leave No Trace principles is important. Never stash pads. Do not alter landings, chip or glue holds, or remove or alter vegetation. Walk on hard surfaces such as boulders or established trails. Store your gear on boulders instead of dirt or vegetation. Clean up spilled chalk and tick marks and brush holds. Keep your presence low key and unobtrusive. Pack out everything you brought and anything else that shouldn’t have been left there. RMNP rangers are very aware of the impact that bouldering has on this environment. ”

“However this bouldering paradise has not been without problems. This is a fragile area, where plant and animal life struggles to maintain a toehold in a severe and barren environment. User impact has been hard to avoid noticing over the past six or seven years. Some climbers have been too ready to disregard the wilderness ethic in favor of a group mentality that emphasizes doing the problem at any price. Offenses include stashing pads overnight, landscaping landings, destruction of vegetation, and so on. The rangers at RMNP are watching the situation and it is up to every single visitor, regardless of climbing ability, to act as a good steward of a vital living natural resource. Otherwise painful and restrictive regulations could change forever the freedom that many have taken for granted in the mountains.”
B3

11. Dec, 2009

Peter, I am sorry. you are correct, I just forgot, thanks for calling me on that. I appreciate the work you have done on this, because it is important to have accurate information out there. Thank you! I am trying to be as consistent as possible.
B3

11. Dec, 2009

Chip, thanks for the input. I have thought about this quite a bit and it is clear to us and from what the rangers have said that a guide to Evans can’t be comprehensive. There is quite a bit to discuss and I am sure I will be in touch with you in the coming months.
peter b

11. Dec, 2009

No problem Jamie and the offer to use it is genuine. Obviously there is more to be said on the issue of climber conduct.

Re:Hueco, Matt’s guide is exemplary. However would it be enough by itself to control climber misbehavior? The lack of climber self-policing seems to me the elephant in the room here. It’s too bad that the problem was so bad in Hueco that the government had to step in and regulate it so heavily.
kyle

14. Dec, 2009

So my 2 cents as a non-colorado resident. The last two years myself and some friends have made it out to the park from KY. There is no guide effectively, as the Horan guide is considered useless by most reveiews. So what do we do? We get vague ideas on where problems are from the little information on the net and then we pack up the car and go. Once there we find what we can easily, the standards like go-bot/revenge area, centaur, Tommy’s arete, etc…

From this point we go hunting, locals give us vague directions with the pointing of a finger, or if we are lucky we can tag a long but in general we are hiking around looking for what we know exists.

What I am getting at is that there are a large number of people that head to the park/evans every summer with vague directions that get them almost there and then all of us stop around looking. The impact is great, the confusion is greater, but we still keep coming. I know my friends and I are not along in this, we run into other clueless guys all the time too. The cat is out of the bag, and the guides on the net already got a lot of people out hunting but doing so aimlessly. I think this guide is going to help keep my own impact and that of those in my situation down. So thanks… because to be honest the mountain project guide, and information found scouring local blogs is just enough to get guys like me out there and causing trouble.
Pdrizzle

19. Dec, 2009

PSYCHED! Do it Jamie…

Properly written guide books (ie Wilder’s Hueco Guide) = Education. They also help define our sport to land managers, non-climbers, newbies, and ourselves.

In the end I think proper guides (written by actual rock climbers like Jamie) promote controlled growth of areas and increased awareness of conservation.
Brian

28. Dec, 2009

There are hundreds of guides for all kinds of hiking, climbing, and basically anything you could do in the park. why not bouldering?! It will make the park better, not worse. Less erosion, not more. also we need an extensive guide on where to stash our pads… mine always get stolen. =D