Comments on: Red Feather http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/ Jamie Emerson Tue, 07 Feb 2012 01:11:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: yorick http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-29485 yorick Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:58:54 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-29485 I realize this conversation is over, but, to stir the pot, look at "what" and "why" Toni named his recent problem: http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/lamprecht_sends_new_v16_in_germany/ I realize this conversation is over, but, to stir the pot, look at “what” and “why” Toni named his recent problem:
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/lamprecht_sends_new_v16_in_germany/

]]> By: CBD http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28419 CBD Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:52:25 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28419 Being on the outside I would just like to say that it is easy to misread or misinterpret what you see or read on the internet. The Product is a striking line. It climbs the only feature on an otherwise seemingly blank wall. Someone who has no knowledge of the area could probably look at both videos and think you are basically climbing the same line. Couple that with the mention of the second and third ascensionists downgrading the original line, someone else having found and cleaned the original line, and then climbing and renaming a lower start and it almost sounds like an undercover diss towards Chuck. Hence the reason the internet is the devil. Being on the outside I would just like to say that it is easy to misread or misinterpret what you see or read on the internet. The Product is a striking line. It climbs the only feature on an otherwise seemingly blank wall. Someone who has no knowledge of the area could probably look at both videos and think you are basically climbing the same line. Couple that with the mention of the second and third ascensionists downgrading the original line, someone else having found and cleaned the original line, and then climbing and renaming a lower start and it almost sounds like an undercover diss towards Chuck. Hence the reason the internet is the devil.

]]> By: yorick http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28352 yorick Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:26:18 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28352 fair enough. it's still a great send and a great blog. fair enough.

it’s still a great send and a great blog.

]]> By: Anon http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28055 Anon Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:21:53 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28055 I second the Huge props to Tendon for finding and sharing so many rad, amazing, inspiring blocs with us. Also good on Jamie for promoting some discourse here. I second the Huge props to Tendon for finding and sharing so many rad, amazing, inspiring blocs with us. Also good on Jamie for promoting some discourse here.

]]> By: B3 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28050 B3 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:47:59 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28050 I think we will have to agree to disagree. I am not erasing Chuck's problem in anyway and I am not trying to take anything away from what Chuck has done. It still exists and people are welcome to climb it. The real hero is Ben Scott, who for the past 8 years has been hiking, scrubbing and cleaning all of these amazing lines and willingly handing them over. I think we will have to agree to disagree. I am not erasing Chuck’s problem in anyway and I am not trying to take anything away from what Chuck has done. It still exists and people are welcome to climb it. The real hero is Ben Scott, who for the past 8 years has been hiking, scrubbing and cleaning all of these amazing lines and willingly handing them over.

]]> By: yorick http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28039 yorick Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:13:51 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28039 Jamie, I understand your point, and it is a thoughtful point. But in naming the few climbs you have made, most of which are more recent, you're ignoring a countless number of "sits" "variations" and "extensions" that are tacked onto climbs. You're also ignoring the fact that most French climbers were outraged about the (from their perspective) "American" insistence on calling Biographie Realization. For me, the upsetting part is that, in naming something different, we are erasing part of the past. Why not embrace an extension as an extension of something that was already there? I would rather see well-spoken, though-provoking climbers like you advocate an ethic that honors the past rather than embrace a "precedent" that seems to endorse a marketing-sort of individual achievement. Jamie, I understand your point, and it is a thoughtful point. But in naming the few climbs you have made, most of which are more recent, you’re ignoring a countless number of “sits” “variations” and “extensions” that are tacked onto climbs. You’re also ignoring the fact that most French climbers were outraged about the (from their perspective) “American” insistence on calling Biographie Realization. For me, the upsetting part is that, in naming something different, we are erasing part of the past. Why not embrace an extension as an extension of something that was already there? I would rather see well-spoken, though-provoking climbers like you advocate an ethic that honors the past rather than embrace a “precedent” that seems to endorse a marketing-sort of individual achievement.

]]> By: NS http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28038 NS Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:07:43 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28038 Daniel Woods should be put to shame for naming his boulder problem "Jade." It is most clear that it should appropriately be referred to as The Green 45 Stand Sit Start. Daniel Woods should be put to shame for naming his boulder problem “Jade.” It is most clear that it should appropriately be referred to as The Green 45 Stand Sit Start.

]]> By: B3 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28025 B3 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 20:00:50 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28025 Maybe it should or its nice if it does, but I don't think it has to. Chuck neither found nor cleaned The Product, so should he name it something that Ben Scott suggested? In the end, people will do what they want and the community will decide whats appropriate. When Dave has a chance to do a one move sit start to the classic arete Boogalagga to give Big Paw his new 8C, or when he does a three move sit start the Dagger and calls it the Story of Two Worlds, or when Chris Sharma adds a 4 or 5 bolt extension to Biographie, the climbing world agrees that the route is called Realization, or when Fred adds four moves to Better Eat your Wheaties to give Crown of Aragorn. Like it or not, that is the precedent that has been set and it has been set by standard setting rock climbers on standard setting rock climbs around the world. Clearly Mastodon is not standard setting in any way, however it does follow the precedent. Maybe it should or its nice if it does, but I don’t think it has to. Chuck neither found nor cleaned The Product, so should he name it something that Ben Scott suggested? In the end, people will do what they want and the community will decide whats appropriate. When Dave has a chance to do a one move sit start to the classic arete Boogalagga to give Big Paw his new 8C, or when he does a three move sit start the Dagger and calls it the Story of Two Worlds, or when Chris Sharma adds a 4 or 5 bolt extension to Biographie, the climbing world agrees that the route is called Realization, or when Fred adds four moves to Better Eat your Wheaties to give Crown of Aragorn. Like it or not, that is the precedent that has been set and it has been set by standard setting rock climbers on standard setting rock climbs around the world. Clearly Mastodon is not standard setting in any way, however it does follow the precedent.

]]> By: yorick http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-28002 yorick Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:25:10 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-28002 I think the "new" name should allude to the original line. I think there's precedent for both, but even in generating your list to justify your position, you listed names that do refer to the original line (eg., "build your woodies"). I guess I prefer Biographie Extension to Realization too. For me, the premise is that someone else climbed the basic line, the basic sequence. Adding a few moves on the back or bottom shows some additional creativity, but it's incremental compared to the original vision to see, clean, and establish the line. I think the first name should serve as a baseline that subsequent variants should allude to. Following this logic, new ascents preserve history. Following the "add two moves, name it what you want" it isn't mental masturbation, it seems to be about claiming FA's that should have a huge * next to them. I think the “new” name should allude to the original line. I think there’s precedent for both, but even in generating your list to justify your position, you listed names that do refer to the original line (eg., “build your woodies”). I guess I prefer Biographie Extension to Realization too. For me, the premise is that someone else climbed the basic line, the basic sequence. Adding a few moves on the back or bottom shows some additional creativity, but it’s incremental compared to the original vision to see, clean, and establish the line. I think the first name should serve as a baseline that subsequent variants should allude to. Following this logic, new ascents preserve history. Following the “add two moves, name it what you want” it isn’t mental masturbation, it seems to be about claiming FA’s that should have a huge * next to them.

]]> By: B3 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2009/03/05/red-feather-6/comment-page-1/#comment-27910 B3 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:32:06 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/?p=1528#comment-27910 Ed, I agree, but its a fun subject to debate while we are around right now. Ed, I agree, but its a fun subject to debate while we are around right now.

]]>