Comments on: Meathook http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/ Jamie Emerson Tue, 07 Feb 2012 01:11:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Eliott http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-697 Eliott Sat, 06 Oct 2007 02:58:36 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-697 thats a great point Elweed. My friend Phil is a great example of this. He's been climbing for 4 years? started when he was 29 so he didn't have the advantage of youth or a trainer on his side, but last year in his 3rd year of climbing, took a one month trip to Hueco having never sent a V12 because where we climb, there really are none, and a month later had sent 12, V12's. Thats on top of having sent numerous 10's and elevens and spending how ever many days spotting his partner on his projects. He basically never even tried any 13's because he was so psyched to have sent a 12 that he stuck to trying 12's. When you put together the actual days you can climb at hueco, plus rest days, he was basically sending a v12 every time out. But did anyone ever hear about it? Did he get a write up in the mags? Not even UC mag. I would have to say he is the consistently strongest climber I've ever climbed with, And I'm sure there are climbers out there even stronger and just as unknown. thats a great point Elweed. My friend Phil is a great example of this. He’s been climbing for 4 years? started when he was 29 so he didn’t have the advantage of youth or a trainer on his side, but last year in his 3rd year of climbing, took a one month trip to Hueco having never sent a V12 because where we climb, there really are none, and a month later had sent 12, V12′s. Thats on top of having sent numerous 10′s and elevens and spending how ever many days spotting his partner on his projects. He basically never even tried any 13′s because he was so psyched to have sent a 12 that he stuck to trying 12′s. When you put together the actual days you can climb at hueco, plus rest days, he was basically sending a v12 every time out. But did anyone ever hear about it? Did he get a write up in the mags? Not even UC mag. I would have to say he is the consistently strongest climber I’ve ever climbed with, And I’m sure there are climbers out there even stronger and just as unknown.

]]> By: jamie http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-688 jamie Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:56:07 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-688 Scott, Thank you so much for your contribution. This is exaclty the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you for sharing. Scott, Thank you so much for your contribution. This is exaclty the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you for sharing.

]]> By: Blunk http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-687 Blunk Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:31:31 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-687 I have been familiar with this problem for over 30 years, here is my two cents. First, the initial right undercling hold did break and was glued back by Sherman. It is slightly better than before. The difference doesn't matter, the first move pulling off the ground is indeed easy. I don't know why Holloway indicated "pulling off the ground" was the crux, the sequence he related to us made it clear that matching in the underclings was the crux. Perhaps he misspoke during the interview, maybe Andy Mann can clear that up? The sequence Holloway told us he used was to pull on, reach the upper right undercling first (as an undercling, not a gaston), reposition the feet, match into the left undercling and then up to the big horizontal using the meathook hold as a sidepull with the left hand. As to whether or not Holloway actually did Meathook, I am sure he did. I climbed with Jim several times in the late 70's. At that time I and others were able to do V-9ish problems within 5-6 sessions. Jim was much, much stronger than anyone else at that time. His fingers were phenomenal, he could hang on really small holds easily. I believe he had the physical tools to do Meathook and certainly the persistence and desire. I have seen one other person, Chris Hill, who almost matched in the underclings, so I am certain the problem is doable the way Holloway did it. As far as Dave Twinam's method, it is significantly different. He used a combination of stemming and taking the right undercling as a gaston. His method is hard as hell and a valid ascent. I think the issue is whether or not anyone can repeat Holloway's method. I will be happy to meet anyone who interested to show what I know about the problem, just shoot me an email. I think it would be fantastic to get some of you strong lads on it and see a repeat this winter! Scott Blunk I have been familiar with this problem for over 30 years, here is my two cents.
First, the initial right undercling hold did break and was glued back by Sherman. It is slightly better than before. The difference doesn’t matter, the first move pulling off the ground is indeed easy. I don’t know why Holloway indicated “pulling off the ground” was the crux, the sequence he related to us made it clear that matching in the underclings was the crux. Perhaps he misspoke during the interview, maybe Andy Mann can clear that up?
The sequence Holloway told us he used was to pull on, reach the upper right undercling first (as an undercling, not a gaston), reposition the feet, match into the left undercling and then up to the big horizontal using the meathook hold as a sidepull with the left hand.
As to whether or not Holloway actually did Meathook, I am sure he did. I climbed with Jim several times in the late 70′s. At that time I and others were able to do V-9ish problems within 5-6 sessions. Jim was much, much stronger than anyone else at that time. His fingers were phenomenal, he could hang on really small holds easily. I believe he had the physical tools to do Meathook and certainly the persistence and desire. I have seen one other person, Chris Hill, who almost matched in the underclings, so I am certain the problem is doable the way Holloway did it.
As far as Dave Twinam’s method, it is significantly different. He used a combination of stemming and taking the right undercling as a gaston. His method is hard as hell and a valid ascent. I think the issue is whether or not anyone can repeat Holloway’s method.
I will be happy to meet anyone who interested to show what I know about the problem, just shoot me an email. I think it would be fantastic to get some of you strong lads on it and see a repeat this winter!

Scott Blunk

]]> By: campusman http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-686 campusman Thu, 04 Oct 2007 16:57:56 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-686 jamie H, ya best height for a climber...he wasnt as good as strongmos of today, but its known that he was setting the standards in his day..thats well deserved respect..just like gill gets it...**bows** jamie litz, now this dude was seriously side by side w/ sharma/ better in some ways even but who got more attention cuz of plastic? litz hates plastic..one of the first to actually tear up rmnp, doing 6 one arm pull ups for the bus load with jamie emerson, michael rathke, daniel woods, matt ?, michael auldrich, chuck fry, lance ?, and of other strongmos...what a show he put on..we all woulda never met up with him if jamie lance and i didnt split off from the group on accident.. jamie H, ya best height for a climber…he wasnt as good as strongmos of today, but its known that he was setting the standards in his day..thats well deserved respect..just like gill gets it…**bows**

jamie litz, now this dude was seriously side by side w/ sharma/ better in some ways even
but who got more attention cuz of plastic? litz hates plastic..one of the first to actually tear up rmnp, doing 6 one arm pull ups for the bus load with jamie emerson, michael rathke, daniel woods, matt ?, michael auldrich, chuck fry, lance ?, and of other strongmos…what a show he put on..we all woulda never met up with him if jamie lance and i didnt split off from the group on accident..

]]> By: jamie http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-685 jamie Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:18:06 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-685 you are correct, certinainly a poor argument on my part. I was looking a little too hard for information to back up the fact that standards have progressed. However, when Action Direct was climbed it had no confirmation for numerous years. 5.14a was maybe consensus in 1991, and now it seems there are consensus 5.15a, so that would show progression. you are correct, certinainly a poor argument on my part. I was looking a little too hard for information to back up the fact that standards have progressed. However, when Action Direct was climbed it had no confirmation for numerous years. 5.14a was maybe consensus in 1991, and now it seems there are consensus 5.15a, so that would show progression.

]]> By: chuffer http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-684 chuffer Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:51:43 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-684 narc - While it is easy to point out the undesirable qualities about Meathook and Slapshot, Trice is most definitely worthy of a repeat. The rock is as bullet as anything on Flag and the problem is reasonably obvious and hard. It has been tried by some of the world's best climbers, but it hasn't happened. Hopefully, this winter ... In the mid 1970's Holloway did a number of freakish core-strength feats, especially considering he was 6'4/5"ish. And he's always contended Trice was the easiest of his Big Three. I forgot about Twinam's ascent of Meatrope using different feet. Are the feet so far off the line as to make us not count it on a technicality? In any event, it is interesting to hear a numer of folks chime in on this issue. narc -

While it is easy to point out the undesirable qualities about Meathook and Slapshot, Trice is most definitely worthy of a repeat. The rock is as bullet as anything on Flag and the problem is reasonably obvious and hard. It has been tried by some of the world’s best climbers, but it hasn’t happened. Hopefully, this winter …

In the mid 1970′s Holloway did a number of freakish core-strength feats, especially considering he was 6’4/5″ish. And he’s always contended Trice was the easiest of his Big Three. I forgot about Twinam’s ascent of Meatrope using different feet. Are the feet so far off the line as to make us not count it on a technicality?

In any event, it is interesting to hear a numer of folks chime in on this issue.

]]> By: bob johns http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-683 bob johns Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:31:08 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-683 "grades come from consensus" and then two sentences later "chilam bilam... 5.15c" now I may only be a scientist and mediocre climber but how valid is a "consensus of one?" I mean, last time I head no one had repeated this route and I've always thought of this sort of "consensus" more along the lines of a personal opinion. good and we don't even get to go into how people proposing grades for "consensus" are generally totally biased by previously proposed grades... “grades come from consensus” and then two sentences later “chilam bilam… 5.15c” now I may only be a scientist and mediocre climber but how valid is a “consensus of one?” I mean, last time I head no one had repeated this route and I’ve always thought of this sort of “consensus” more along the lines of a personal opinion.

good and we don’t even get to go into how people proposing grades for “consensus” are generally totally biased by previously proposed grades…

]]> By: big poppa chosscrush http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-682 big poppa chosscrush Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:48:46 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-682 i have a problem with YOUR problem, climbing narc! 3:30 at the flag pole. IT'S ON, MOFO !!!!!!!!!!!111111 i have a problem with YOUR problem, climbing narc! 3:30 at the flag pole. IT’S ON, MOFO !!!!!!!!!!!111111

]]> By: campusman http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-681 campusman Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:44:56 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-681 i smell something now, that word is annoying, if u ask me, when u say it, u r s....ing also je was unknown for yrs , and yrs and yrs, he wasnt even sponsored till he was all old and in colorado. i told him to delete his 8a.nu scorecard, and he did, but then the site got all slow and messed up because of him! he is such a menace to society..je, u need to grow up and get strong. your pulling is weak, your core used to be stronger, and its obvious from the gl videos, u need to follow my training methods, when are u even going to do an actual v14? or even 15/16? u downgrade too much..i bet when u send jade u r gonna be like omg that is knot v15.. i smell something now, that word is annoying, if u ask me, when u say it, u r s….ing also

je was unknown for yrs , and yrs and yrs, he wasnt even sponsored till he was all old and in colorado. i told him to delete his 8a.nu scorecard, and he did, but then the site got all slow and messed up because of him! he
is such a menace to society..je, u need to grow up and get strong. your pulling is weak, your core used to be stronger, and its obvious from the gl videos, u need to follow my training methods, when are u even going to do an actual v14? or even 15/16?
u downgrade too much..i bet when u send jade u r gonna be like omg
that is knot v15..

]]> By: peter b http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/comment-page-1/#comment-680 peter b Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:56:32 +0000 http://www.b3bouldering.com/2007/10/02/meathook/#comment-680 Regarding climbingnarc's post, how many people, who all believe something that's not true, does it take to make it actually true? 100, 1000? I'm amazed that climbers would be so quick to essentially claim that these problems were never climbed or have changed so much that they are unclimbable today. Let's shift the focus to AHR at Flag which is not choss, not very contrived at all (especially if you are short), very accessible, and very doable. I think this problem was very clearly ahead of its time, we have photos of Jim on the problem--let's see how hard people think this one is. Regarding climbingnarc’s post, how many people, who all believe something that’s not true, does it take to make it actually true? 100, 1000?

I’m amazed that climbers would be so quick to essentially claim that these problems were never climbed or have changed so much that they are unclimbable today. Let’s shift the focus to AHR at Flag which is not choss, not very contrived at all (especially if you are short), very accessible, and very doable. I think this problem was very clearly ahead of its time, we have photos of Jim on the problem–let’s see how hard people think this one is.

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